Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

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Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby ibrmacf » November 4th, 2012, 1:34 pm

Hey all,
Based on Wreck-it Ralph's performance and further expected future performance, can we say that Disney Animation is in a 2nd Renaissance stage? If so, would you say this stage started from Tangled or Bolt or something else? Or is it too early to say anything?

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby ohmahaaha » November 5th, 2012, 6:58 pm

I don't think the term "Renaissance" can be applied solely to Box Office performance.

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby Ben » November 6th, 2012, 5:56 pm

As you'll see from my Pete's Dragon review, I think the next real wave of true "second renaissance" films are not yet with us. But they're on their way: I believe we're seeing the start of the next great push, but we're not quite there yet.

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby EricJ » November 6th, 2012, 8:04 pm

Actually, wouldn't it be the fourth, counting Cinderella, Mermaid and Tangled?
Or would we still be on Tangled's?

(Ie., where Lasseter tries to clean up all the troubled American Dog/Joe Jump projects that lingered at the bottom of Eisner's memo bin, tries to inject Pixar "No character left behind" thrills and hugginess into them, and ends up with stories that may not be organized, but sure are emotional...
I mean, really, honestly did Lt. Calhoun need HER moment of redemptive dream-come-true subplot resolution TOO? Wasn't that a tad much for pre-emptive last-minute sentimental Pixar script doctoring, just in case, or were we just not taking any chances?)

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby Dacey » November 6th, 2012, 10:23 pm

Eric, are you really trying to imply that Wreck-It Ralph was an Eisner project here? The guy's been out of the company for seven years!
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby ShyViolet » November 6th, 2012, 11:03 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure WIR was greenlit by Lassetter after Eisner was gone and is not a leftover WDFA project like Bolt, Meet the Robinsons and Rapunzel. (Snow Queen was actually discussed
during Eisner's days but not greenlit until the Lassetter regime, so that doesn't count either.)
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby EricJ » November 7th, 2012, 12:56 pm

ShyViolet wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure WIR was greenlit by Lassetter after Eisner was gone and is not a leftover WDFA project like Bolt, Meet the Robinsons and Rapunzel. )


Wreck-It Ralph wasn't, Reboot Ralph was. For a long time.
(So long, the story kept having to be rewritten just to keep up with game technology.)

And someone else will have to fill in on Joe Jump history, I wasn't paying attention at the beginning. But that officially made it one of the "broken toys" in the old Eisner box for Lasseter to fix in lieu of new projects...Insert Sid's Room metaphor here.

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby ShyViolet » November 7th, 2012, 4:08 pm

Yeah but wasn't it Rich Moore's baby from the start? He wasn't there in the Eisner days.
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby ShyViolet » August 13th, 2013, 8:38 am

What do you think? Will Frozen be considered the beginning of the second Renaissance? I think it's a strong possibility, but even if not, I really think we're on our way! :)
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby Ben » August 13th, 2013, 2:12 pm

I don't think we're really in the midst of such a period, but if there was one, it started with Tangled as a Little Mermaid comparison; Frozen feels more like a B&TB...

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby LotsoA113 » August 13th, 2013, 5:05 pm

I'll say this; Wreck-It Ralph makes a convincing case for being the Aladdin of this renaissance.
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby droosan » August 13th, 2013, 5:38 pm

My opinion is actually the same as it was back in the 1980s/90s: If this currently is a 'golden age' or 'renaissance' .. we won't truly be certain until after it has passed us by.

:arrow: These terms tend to be applied in hindsight, by definition.


Even Disney's animation artists in the 1930s & 40s weren't necessarily consciously aware that they were working in the company's first 'Golden Age'.

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby Ben » August 14th, 2013, 3:10 pm

I agree...but there was a special feeling around the time of B&TB that felt like we were in the middle of something.

Mermaid had really made a splash (sorry!) and Rescuers Down Under had pushed technology forward (for those that cared about such things). B&TB kept up that momentum and, even before the Academy nom, there was a feeling that Aladdin was going to be just as good if not better. Eisner and Katzenberg were going great guns, the company was in good shape, and lots of experimenting and creative risks were being taken: Nightmare was also on the way, we knew something was happening between Disney and Pixar, a Fantasia continuation had been announced, and there was a stead stream of films coming down the line.

While we can probably define the Disney Renaissance's time period in hindsight (and even that is debatable...I would probably run it from Mose Detective's fresh beginnings in 1986 to F/2K's end of 1999), there definitely was a feeling that Disney was special again during those early 90s years.


This doesn't feel the same to me, currently. Sure, Disney is enjoying a surge in popularity...but with safe films that have bland titles and that - to be perfectly frank and honest - are only just competing with a glut of films from other studios. In the 30s/40s and the 80s/90s, there just wasn't any other substantial animation features out there...nowadays there is and, while Disney doesn't feel like it's still playing catch-up to Pixar and DreamWorks, I personally don't quite think it's leading the pack yet either.

Robinsons was probably the Mouse Detective film that looked back and forwards at what might come next, Tangled the Mermaid movie that honored that past and made great new strides. Ralph was maybe Aladdin, the broad comedy with heart, while only time will tell if Frozen is a B&TB in waiting. But there's just so much other stuff out there thesedays, that even if Disney may be going through what I might term a "regeneration" instead of an artistic renaissance, I fear that no-one else is really noticing...!

:)

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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby LotsoA113 » August 14th, 2013, 4:06 pm

Bolt being Oliver & Company makes sense (and Chicken Little as The Black Cauldron), but what does The Princess and The Frog become in this scenario?
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Re: Disney Renaissance 2/Disney Revival

Postby EricJ » August 26th, 2013, 7:53 am

Ben wrote:I agree...but there was a special feeling around the time of B&TB that felt like we were in the middle of something.


Of course, before the Renaissance, Disney was floundering in the 80's, and with the Care Bears Movie as the most popular animated of the late 80's, the entire industry pushed for licensed-character spinoffs, to the point that the analysts saw animated features only as a kiddie-commodity marketing product served up in bulk.

And of course, just before '05's Chicken Little (= Black Cauldron), in '02'03, Disney features were running in place after Hercules, the '98 success of the Rugrats Movie created a gold rush for licensed spinoffs of cable series, to the point that analysts saw animated features only as a kiddie-commodity marketing product served up in bulk--And literally couldn't tell the difference between the success of a movie served up from Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks, Warner or Paramount.
(Disney was mortified that Care Bears had outgrossed Black Cauldron in '85, and when Paramount's Wild Thornberries Movie made more money for staying in theaters over '02 Christmas vacation than Treasure Planet did for being pulled early in December, that also became a fact to note down.)

LotsoA113 wrote:Bolt being Oliver & Company makes sense (and Chicken Little as The Black Cauldron), but what does The Princess and The Frog become in this scenario?


That leaves Princess & Frog as the Rescuers Down Under, the movie that came in too early in between the spaces of the "new" renaissance, tried to bring new technology to an old, old style, but sloppily dropped the ball in terms of character and story, seemed to be ninety minutes of Nothing in Particular, and paid the price for it.
(Although that's being a little hard on it, so I'd amend that to P&tF being the Rescuers Down Under WITH the fun old-school-Mickey Prince & the Pauper included, that made the audience wish they could have had an "old-fashioned" feature as good as that one. Or maybe Winnie the Pooh '11 would be Prince & the Pauper, that made us wish for the old 50's-60's Disney back again, but ended up becoming a best-kept-secret with the few fans who saw it in a theater?)

And Frozen's too late, you can't have a B&tB AFTER the Aladdin--
(Ie., B&tB coasting on Mermaid's success, and getting raves just for showing up, not disappointing after Mermaid, and making us realize the first one wasn't just a fluke...Again, no pun intended. :P And then, of course, getting the adult audience all in a Pixar-style tizzy about nominating it for an Oscar, just to cover up their adult-embarrassment about liking "kiddy" Disney movies on a regular basis now.)
Aladdin would be the decathlon winner of the renaissance, the one that aced integrating music, character, comedy and the world of the original tale's source with new style into one complete unified entity. That could be Ralph--Although now we have to figure out what becomes the sloppy, overconfident, undeservingly-overpraised-on-its-pedigree Lion King that gets the audience too much behind it, all pumped up with inflated box office to praise the "next one".