Gulliver's Travels coming to Blu-ray! (Fleischer)

Post by **Daniel** » November 18th, 2008, 12:11 am

**Koch Vision** has announced a March 10th release date for Max Fleischer's Gulliver's Travels (1939) in Standard & Blu-Ray format.

While available in standard for some time with several previous PD releases, this is the first Blu-Ray release for the Fleischer animated classic. It is also the third animated classic to get Blu-Ray treatment along with the just released Sleeping Beauty and the upcoming Pinocchio with the same March 10th release date.

I'll go ahead and say the given - there's no info on the transfer.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. The quality of the source print will go a long way. I'm assuming the whole rights situation still hasn't been addressed though, which throws the option of going back to the negative...

I would really hate if the transfer is like the current PD DVDs, ie. washed out colors, etc. I'm hoping, hoping, the transfer is good, 'cause that would look horrible in HD. Bleading colors and... I don't even want to think about it. Crossing fingers big time from me!

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 18th, 2008, 12:59 am

In other words, good luck on this one being any good.

Seeing as the few good quality prints exist in private hands and we have no idea on the condition of the negative (if it still exists!), I wouldn't count on the Blu-Ray looking anywhere near as good as Disney's WORST DVDs.

Paramount/Viacom still show no apparent interest in their classic animation, either.

Ray Pointer, the true pointman on all matters Fleischer, would be the one to ask about this but I doubt even he's been called onto this. For films that have basically been abandoned or forgotten, most small companies don't bother calling in experts for advice or technical advantage.

People like to complain about Disney, but at least most of the elements of the old films have been kept... in addition to the mere fact that Disney still owns practically all the films Walt and Company ever made after 1928.

No other film company that I'm aware of can make the same claim. So many films have changed hands and copyright issue and failure to renew said-copyrights have arisen with so many films, there's really a great danger that many other films made BEFORE 1950 will suffer the same fate as the vast majority of silent movies.

FYI, I've never really counted on Blu-Ray animation releases looking much better than their DVD counterparts in most cases. If anything, the BD will just highlight the poor condition of a lot of films that much more. I'm really also pessimistic about the prospects of a bunch of films and TV shows being "upgraded" to BD, too. I just don't think most animation (outside of Disney's classics) was ever meant to be in high resolutions anyway.

Post by **Ben** » November 18th, 2008, 9:33 am

I'll keep banging on that the 60th Anniversary edition from a few years back is pretty darned nice effort, with some care and good extras. Disney were actually involved in the color grading...on par with the video restorations of the 1990s as opposed to today's digital grading, but this is the best I've ever seen it look.

But, yes...very interested to see what this looks like.

"I just don't think most animation was ever meant to be in high resolutions anyway." - what, like...film?

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 18th, 2008, 1:53 pm

Ben,

Do you honestly believe The Flintstones (TV series) was meant to be seen in high definition?

I sure don't! That show and most everything else produced before 200x was designed for standard definition TVs!

There are a lot of films that really won't look better in high-def and some wiill betray their age so much that it'll tempt the DVNR crowd and other well-intentioned restoration artists to muck that much more with the film/video image.

We've already seen how mixed the reception to the "updated, remastered" Star Trek TV sets and broadcasts has been. (Fair enough to point out that the remastered Trek hasn't been put out on Blu-Ray yet, but you can still see problems with the new CG effectss even in standard def broadcasts!)

This whole issue will continue showing up more and more as the transition to high def gets really going in the next five years. We're still in the very early stages of it and just starting to see the birthing pains.

As far as Gulliver's concerned, the ball park is in whoever owns the original film elements (if they even still exist). I doubt that even the last "restoration" of Gulliver was done for anything other than 480i/p. I'd be real surprised if the fellows who handled the restoration were far-sighted enough to prep the film for hi-def. Be great if they did, but I'm not holding my breath. It's all about $$$.

I already know, for instance, that the Director's Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture isn't even coming out on Blu-Ray next year because Paramount didn't instruct the company that produced the new CGI effects for the recut to render them higher than 480p! Paramount is re-releasing the theatrical cut of STTMP because they don't want to pay for re-rendering the Director's Edition's new shots.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 18th, 2008, 1:57 pm

I don't like doing back-to-back posts, but sometimes the posts get so long I don't want to make it look like I'm doing a research paper!

The guy to ask about Gulliver's Travels is doing a radio show this Wednesday.

Here's the promo blurb he put up on AnimationNation:

"WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 2008

STU'S SHOW (LIVE, 4:00 p.m. PDT/7:00 p.m. EDT, with rebroadcasts daily at the same time except on Sunday, when it airs at 9:00 a.m. PDT/12 noon EDT) - Animation producer/director/historian RAY POINTER is the guest this week. Ray is a top authority on Max Fleischer and the Fleischer cartoon studio, and when he was on the show at the beginning of the summer, we traced the history of the studio up to the Paramount takeover in 1942. We'll pick it up right where we left off, first with a discussion of the "Superman" cartoon series, and then Max's relocation to the Jam Handy company in Detroit after Paramount took his staff (including his son-in-law Seymour Kneitel) and moved them back to New York to form Famous Studios. We'll also discuss the lawsuit Max filed in 1955 when his cartoons were released to television and his attempted resurrection of the "Out of the Inkwell" series with the Hal Seeger company in the early 1960s. Ray was also privileged to meet Max Fleischer, and he'll recount that story, and we'll play some rare audio tracks of the Fleischer family celebrating birthdays and anniversaries, too! Plus, we'll take your phone calls toll-free! www.shokusradio.com"

***************

Wednesday's the time to call and ask about Gulliver on home video.

Post by **EricJ** » November 18th, 2008, 2:06 pm

Guys....Koch is a PD vulture. It's the usual print.

(As for whatever did happen to that restored version Warner was thinking of giving us, back when the history-of-Fleischer Popeye sets were going to be longer, we can only wait and see if we're getting more sets...But now that they're into the Famous toons, that's not likely.)

Post by **Daniel** » November 27th, 2008, 3:31 pm

Here's the trade ad which offers a look at the cover. Nice, I like it! Although - "Presented in Widescreen".. ugh.

But the "Digital Restored & Remastered" banner sounds promising, though I think that's on already on some of the PD's. Still very interested in how this will look. I hope Kosh does Gulliver right, it really deserves more respect.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 27th, 2008, 5:27 pm

Feh.

I'll wait for the review. Not holding my breath.

The company that probably still has the original negative and sound elements to Gulliver's Travels, or at least the best prints, doesn't seem to be interested in releasing a quality version on home video. We're getting a remastered public domain dupe here.

With the exception of a few experimental films here and there, there were no widescreen movies until the mid-1950s! The first commercial widescreen film might have been The Robe.

Post by **Ben** » November 27th, 2008, 6:43 pm

I'll bet you anything that this is the 60th Anniversary edition in HD.

The extras look to be the same...there's the same audio options...it's the same release!

The only thing is that "Aspect Ratio: 16x9"...ugh...no mention of a 1.33:1 in there at all. My guess: either this is going to be a completely useless hack job, or they're counting the 1.78:1 HD frame as their "16x9" in which the 1.33 will be matted in.

But don't count on it...they're just as likely to crop out the image to create a fake widescreen framing. I knew this was going to happen with HD releases...and don't say I didn't tell you so!

Gulliver's multi-generations have already seen too much image slide away from the edges...I shudder to think what this would look like with a third of the top and bottom cut away...

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 28th, 2008, 2:16 am

You're probably right, Ben. You're probably right.

We'll wait and see what some brave buyer says on one of the other animation sites or Amazon.com

No way am I going to be the first sucker to get this Blu-Ray disc!

It's too bad none of the premiere home video companies are doing anything with this film or Mr. Bug Goes To Town.

I just wonder what the real legal status of these films is. I've been told by an authority that the soundtrack rights and international copyrights might still be intact. However, it doesn't seem like the company that DOES have the best claim to either Fleischer film (Paramount) has any interest in doing anything with them.

Post by **Ben** » November 28th, 2008, 2:13 pm

I wouldn't be so sure on the international copyrights, at least in the UK/Europe, where it also seems to be fair game in the public domain stakes.

I remember multiple releases from the past (I have a couple of them) that were from the later 1960s NTA television prints. The 60th Anniversary edition at least restores the Paramount logos on the front and end of the print.

Yes, SUCH a shame that Paramount or even WB don't want to rescue this from PD heck, though Legend did put out that "Bugville" disc for Mr Bug.

You'd think that a two-disc set or even just a single-disc double feature would be something pretty amazing for collectors. I still can't work out why no-one did anything with Hoppity during the 1998 insect wars and put it out with a tag like "the original bug's life" or something.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » November 28th, 2008, 2:57 pm

To be fair, Ben, I had no real problems with the Legend "Bugville" disc.

Although I've only seen it on the iPod, the transfer still seemed pretty clean to me and the film looked like it was in good shape. They obviously used a good print for the DVD!

I do have a tiny problem with them changing the title, and it seem did like the film finishes with no end credits. I think that was typical for a lot of films made back then. Animators really didn't get credit in a lot of films until the late 1940s, and Disney was also stingy about credits until the 1950s.

The only other editions of "Mr. Bug" I've seen on disc in the US are the two MoviesUnlimited Editions. I got the Legend disc from a bookstore chain because I don't really like dealing with "unknown" distributors and companies that don't list in stores. That seems kind of fishy to me.

Post by **Sunday** » November 28th, 2008, 4:12 pm

Ben wrote:I shudder to think what this would look like with a third of the top and bottom cut away...

On the plus side I guess we'll be able to see the world through Lilliputian eyes.

Post by **Ben** » November 29th, 2008, 11:06 am

Hey George,

Both Gulliver and Mr Bug do indeed have full credits. The original prints contained a good heaping of names of the contributing artists, while both films should finish on the standard Paramount "The End, A Paramount Picture" mountain logo.

As mentioned before, the 60th Gulliver restores that, and the LD release of Hoppity also includes the quite beautifully illustrated version from a very fine print, even if it is a later NTA edition.

Post by **Daniel** » March 9th, 2009, 9:08 pm

Here's a review for the BD... EWWW!

A lot DVNR! Figures, really. Did we honestly expect anything else? I know I was trying to be optimistic, even knowing full well the end results were likely going to be bad. Yes, such a shame. The images don't look very good and they look so blurry. Does Koch really think those who get it will think this is restored? They have got to be kidding!

...Trying to look on the bright side, I hope you're able to review this Ben. I really want to see comparison shots and see if the DVD really is better. And of course to know if the Blu is as bad as the review says. Though I'm not holding my breath at the chance he might be wrong.

What a disappointment, so much for picking it up tomorrow...