Team America: World Police

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Postby James » November 18th, 2004, 10:19 am

When the film is a politcal one politics are relavent.


Your long post after my second warning had nothing to do with the politics of the film.

guess I'll continue to be a "serial offender" then.


Continue after a moderator has asked that things stay on topic and you may find your threads closed and your posts edited or deleted.

As I keep saying the moderators do not want to be heavy handed here, but if you guys won't police yourselves we will.

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Postby Special_Ed » November 18th, 2004, 11:17 am

"Your long post after my second warning had nothing to do with the politics of the film."

It had everything to do with the politics in the film, I even used my title in my closing.

"Continue after a moderator has asked that things stay on topic and you may find your threads closed and your posts edited or deleted."

It was on topic! Started deleting and editing my posts and I'm outta here.

"As I keep saying the moderators do not want to be heavy handed here, but if you guys won't police yourselves we will."

Police ourselves from what? We are adults after all. We can have rational conversations about anything. We don't need to be babies.

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Postby James » November 18th, 2004, 11:54 am

Special_Ed wrote:It had everything to do with the politics in the film, I even used my title in my closing.


You write a 700 word response and you think because you use half the title in the very last sentence that that makes it on topic?

Special_Ed wrote:It was on topic! Started deleting and editing my posts and I'm outta here...

Police ourselves from what? We are adults after all. We can have rational conversations about anything. We don't need to be babies.


Ed, I have been very, VERY lenient with you. How lenient? Well, I've had complaints about your posts in the past, including one person who has said they will never return to our site. You seem to want to make every argument into a religious sermon. You don't take criticism well. And you don't respect that this forum is not your personal playground. And after all that I've only continued to ask you politely to keep in on topic.

That is basically the only rule here - keep it on topic! If you can't follow that one simple rule, then who is being the baby?

I WILL edit or delete your posts or close your threads if you can not respect the other people in this forum and follow that simple rule when asked. If that means we lose your supposedly "on topic" comments like "Clinton...opens trade with China so all our jobs go over there" or "Jesus Christ is the center of the universe", then so be it.

We like your true on topic posts Ed! Take all the energy you pored in that LONG off topic post and use it telling us your view on something animation related!

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Postby Special_Ed » November 18th, 2004, 12:50 pm

"You write a 700 word response and you think because you use half the title in the very last sentence that that makes it on topic? "

I did a lot of quoting from Mr. Star's post and Mr. Star brought up much of what I commented on in the first place.

"I've had complaints about your posts in the past, including one person who has said they will never return to our site."

If I recall that was over some stupid thing anyway. I remember when it happened. They reaked out about some dumb thing and eveyone agreed it was dumb.

"You seem to want to make every argument into a religious sermon. "

No, I do not. You confuse morality and truth with religion.

"And you don't respect that this forum is not your personal playground. "

I never said it was.

" If you can't follow that one simple rule, then who is being the baby? "

Oh yeah, that was so mature

"I WILL edit or delete your posts or close your threads if you can not respect the other people in this forum and follow that simple rule when asked."

Oh yes, my posts are so disrespectful....

"If that means we lose your supposedly "on topic" comments like "Clinton...opens trade with China so all our jobs go over there" or "Jesus Christ is the center of the universe", then so be it. "

You can argue with the fact....And I suppose the factless America and Bush bashng is perfectly okay....

" Take all the energy you pored in that LONG off topic post and use it telling us your view on something animation related!"

I ALWAYS take time with all of my posts. All the more to be against censorship.

Jesus IS Lord!

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Postby James » November 18th, 2004, 2:01 pm

Special_Ed wrote:I did a lot of quoting from Mr. Star's post and Mr. Star brought up much of what I commented on in the first place.


I wasn't counting the quotes! Your words alone were almost 700 words.

Special_Ed wrote:No, I do not. You confuse morality and truth with religion.


Morality, truth, and religion are not the topic at hand, and therefore off topic.

Special_Ed wrote:Oh yeah, that was so mature
Oh yes, my posts are so disrespectful....


Those quotes are not the best example of showing maturity and respect!

Special_Ed wrote:You can argue with the fact....And I suppose the factless America and Bush bashng is perfectly okay....


I warned them - they stopped - you did not.

Special_Ed wrote:All the more to be against censorship.


There has been no censorship here, but you are in danger of causing it by not showing any self-restraint and by not following a simple request.

Special_Ed wrote:Jesus IS Lord!


And here you prove exactly what I have been saying. You throw in an off topic comment for absolutely no reason. Whether or not Jesus is Lord has nothing to do with either the movie in question OR your off topic posts.

After all of my polite requests asking you to stay on topic and your continued disrespect of me and everyone else, you are being a very poor example of the things you continue to preach about.

In my last post I gave you another chance. I asked that you keep things on topic "when asked". You have wasted that opportunity by mocking and disrespecting me and all the others who bring you this site at our own expense (of time, money, and effort). Since you are not interested in my effort to give you the chance to do the right thing yourself, I will now monitor your every post and delete or edit those that are off topic without warning - until you show you can follow the rules.

We don't want to lose your voice here. So hopefully you will stand up and be a man, accept responsibility and post appropriately. Based on your previous responses to my very simple requests, I will probably be disappointed.

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Postby Special_Ed » November 18th, 2004, 7:43 pm

You're just proving my view that unless you are open and accepting of all crap, garbage and trash you are discrminated against. It seems these days that anyonr who takes a stand on anything moral andpure is painted to be bad. I'm outta here.

cya!

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Postby James » November 18th, 2004, 10:33 pm

Special_Ed wrote:You're just proving my view that unless you are open and accepting of all crap, garbage and trash you are discrminated against. It seems these days that anyonr who takes a stand on anything moral andpure is painted to be bad. I'm outta here.

cya!


Give me one concrete example of discrimination...

You cannot do it.

It is easier to leave in a huff, then to prove your point - especially since your point is invalid.

I'll leave your post here so you can respond in an intelligent way with concrete examples of discrimination if you wish. Since that will be impossible (giving concrete examples of discrimination and apparently you responding intelligently) I guess this is good bye.

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Postby Special_Ed » November 19th, 2004, 5:17 am

See, there you go insulting me again.

Because I have conservative views I am unwelcome here and in many film/art circles. But if I had liberal views I could express them freely and be anywhere I chose. You only want me around if I box up who I am, but you can't do that. When your morals and values dictate how your mind operates it's power is seen in everything you do or say. (Look at that article you posted from Save Disney on the gay theatere people trying to push their political agenda through the Disney films.) You can't hide who you are...you know, it's funny that so many of these animated films share the theme of "be yourself", "celebrate differences" but the moment you are deemed to be "too old fashioned" you are turned away.

This is why you and others discriminate. This is why there is no point in posting where you are unwelcome. This is why I am leaving.

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Postby Phil » November 19th, 2004, 9:04 am

I hope I don't regret getting involved, but Ed, please don't leave.

I enjoy reading your posts, especially those that are animation related. To be honest, I agree with your religious views and most of your political views, but I also agree with James that an animation discussion board is not the best place to agrue them.

The fact that Team America: World Police is a political movie doesn't make it a launching pad for a tirade on politics in general. I would like to see a discussion (and refutation) of specific points the movie tries to make, but it should be kept specific to the movie in question and not devolve into general politics.

And as to the discrimination question, I don't think its so much your views, Ed, but the way you argue them. Other people have made comments I don't agree with, but they have a right to their own opinion. I might like to try to convince them of my own views but, like James said, this isn't the place for that. That's what private e-mail or IM is for.

I probably shouldn't have gotten involved. I'm not a moderator, just a bystander. But I really like reading your posts, Ed, and I would hate to see you go. I hope you don't think I'm attacking you with this post; I just wanted to help you step back and take an objective view.

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Postby James » November 19th, 2004, 9:51 am

Special_Ed wrote:See, there you go insulting me again.

Because I have conservative views I am unwelcome here and in many film/art circles. But if I had liberal views I could express them freely and be anywhere I chose. You only want me around if I box up who I am, but you can't do that. When your morals and values dictate how your mind operates it's power is seen in everything you do or say. (Look at that article you posted from Save Disney on the gay theatere people trying to push their political agenda through the Disney films.) You can't hide who you are...you know, it's funny that so many of these animated films share the theme of "be yourself", "celebrate differences" but the moment you are deemed to be "too old fashioned" you are turned away.

This is why you and others discriminate. This is why there is no point in posting where you are unwelcome. This is why I am leaving.


I COULD NOT CARE LESS whether you are conservative or liberal!

But as moderator of this forum, when I step in and remind people to keep it on topic, then you need to comply. The "liberals" who you were responding to all quit posting off topic material AS SOON AS I ASKED THEM TO STOP. YOU were the only person to continue. THAT is why you were singled out. It had nothing to do with your views. Which means you were NOT discriminated against. Unless you have a mind that cannot be unbiased and objective, go back and reread this thread to see it for yourself.

And I HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY INSULTED YOU! I have gone out of my way to be polite. Almost every time I asked you to stay on topic, I would make sure to add an encouraging line at the end (go back and reread this thread to see that for yourself as well). But then in your last post (where you said I was "accepting of all crap, garbage and trash"), you ONCE AGAIN insulted me with your disrespectful, condescending, and downright rude posting - so I think you finally deserved a good insult.

There are people here who like you and people here who don't. (I actually liked you and your on topic posts before you became hostile at me for absolutely no logical reason.) You are of course free to stay and join in the conversations, but because of your conduct in this thread, I will insist that you remain on topic in the future.

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Postby Special_Ed » November 20th, 2004, 12:06 am

"The "liberals" who you were responding to all quit posting off topic material AS SOON AS I ASKED THEM TO STOP. "

No, they posted their false info and left because no one responded. You're yelling at the wrong guy here, shootingstar brought all this up and is probably laughing at us right now.

I am the only one ever cautioned about sharing views. When the liberal views are expressed they are rarely cautioned if at all. We are made to feel that we must never share our thoughts on anything. Why? I've been sent a lot of email over the last year applauding my vocal stand on issues in the animation field. Others have told me they thought they were the only one with these views in the industry. It is all related because my morality and religion influence everything I do, even wether or not I enjoy a film!

Plus, this is all on topic. When threads start on Noah's Ark or the Mohamad movie are you going to complain when the factual stories behnd these films is presented? If you do that is very disturbing. For some reason people would rather give stigma to subjects for fear of offending someone rather than discussing them. Well, to quote Jiminy Cricket "You can't please everybody"

I have NEVER insulted you. No one deserves to be insulted. Not even liberal american hating trolls from Middle Earth like shootingstar. I not once insulted him or you. I just stated the facts and left it at that.

I have not become hostile to you. I will not be told what I can and cannot say. My conduct is fine, there is nothing wrong with it.

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Postby James » November 20th, 2004, 1:24 am

This will be my final post on this issue. I have made my points and it makes no sense to repeat them over and over.

Special_Ed wrote:they posted their false info and left because no one responded. You're yelling at the wrong guy here, shootingstar brought all this up and is probably laughing at us right now.

I am the only one ever cautioned about sharing views. When the liberal views are expressed they are rarely cautioned if at all.


Go back to page two of this thread. Here is the exact sequence of posts:

Macaluso posts...
Special_Ed posts...
RandCanuck posts...
Lindsay posts...
James says you guys are off topic!
Special_Ed posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Macaluso posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Macaluso posts...
James asks you guys to stay on topic!
Special_Ed posts...

Note that the others were the ones being cautioned it seems - you would jump in right AFTER my warnings! How could I be singling you and your views out when you kept posting after me!

Special_Ed wrote:We are made to feel that we must never share our thoughts on anything. Why? I've been sent a lot of email over the last year applauding my vocal stand on issues in the animation field. Others have told me they thought they were the only one with these views in the industry. It is all related because my morality and religion influence everything I do, even wether or not I enjoy a film!


"We" are not stifling anyone's views on animation. Talking about morality and religion as they apply directly about a film is fine. You were talking about morality and religion as they relate to other people's beliefs. You were responding specifically to off topic posts, not posts about the film. They stopped their off topic posts when asked, you did not.

Special_Ed wrote:Plus, this is all on topic. When threads start on Noah's Ark or the Mohamad movie are you going to complain when the factual stories behnd these films is presented? If you do that is very disturbing.


As I said, talking about films is fine. If the film has religious aspects, discuss those aspects. If the film has political aspects, discuss those aspects. But don't go off on a tangent! Examples from off topic posts in this thread:

Clinton sending jobs to China
the World Trade Organization
WWII
the Hessians in the American Revolution
the French bombing Greenpeace
Bush's cabinet resignations
robot greyhounds (thanks for that one Macaluso :D )

I think, as a moderator of this forum, that I have the duty to step in when things get this far off course!

Special_Ed wrote:I have NEVER insulted you. No one deserves to be insulted. Not even liberal american hating trolls from Middle Earth like shootingstar. I not once insulted him or you. I just stated the facts and left it at that.

I have not become hostile to you.


Is this a joke?! You never insulted anyone, even that "liberal american hating troll from Middle Earth shootingstar"?

I'm going to just move on and let that one speak for itself.

Special_Ed wrote:I will not be told what I can and cannot say. My conduct is fine, there is nothing wrong with it.


If my 4 year old daughter said that to me after I had asked her to stop doing something, I would probably fall back on that old trusted parental saying "As long as you're in my house you follow my rules".

It also seems a bit hypocritical since you have complained in the past about someone's language while in these forums. According to you I cannot tell them what they "can and cannot say".

As I said before, this in not your personal playground. We can enforce our rules.

The people that bring you Animated News don't do all the things we do for this site because it's a job we make money at! We're actually losing money on this thing! We do this because we love animation and want to share our passion with the animation community. We ask nothing in return. But the very least that you can do for us is follow the VERY SIMPLE rules we have in the forums: "don't curse - there are children present", and "stay on topic". If you can't at least do that, then you are taking our generosity and stepping on it.

And to bring this all around back to the original topic of this thread: You haven't seen the film, so even if you had stayed on topic how could you judge it? In what I believe may have been your only on topic post you said that even your "extreme liberal friends hated" the film. No surprise there - it actually has a very strong anti-terrorism-pro-unilateral action slant to it.

You're more then welcome to stick around Ed. You will still be required to stay on topic. But you're an adult! I think you can handle it!

That is my final word here on this issue. I apologize to the other posters here for dragging this out.

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Postby Macaluso » November 20th, 2004, 9:29 am

I request that MY topic be locked now, because it has since been retarded up.

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Postby Special_Ed » November 20th, 2004, 11:45 am

"Go back to page two of this thread. Here is the exact sequence of posts:

Macaluso posts...
Special_Ed posts...
RandCanuck posts...
Lindsay posts...
James says you guys are off topic!
Special_Ed posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Macaluso posts...
Sh00tingstar posts...
Macaluso posts...
James asks you guys to stay on topic!
Special_Ed posts... "

You just showed that others who were not me posted after you too....

"You were talking about morality and religion as they relate to other people's beliefs. "

no i did not.

"They stopped their off topic posts when asked, you did not. "

They probably haven't been around.

"Examples from off topic posts in this thread:

Clinton sending jobs to China
the World Trade Organization
WWII
the Hessians in the American Revolution
the French bombing Greenpeace
Bush's cabinet resignations "

Ever hear of references? This film is supposedly rooted in fact. You have to mention the facts to set the record straight.

"Is this a joke?! You never insulted anyone, even that "liberal american hating troll from Middle Earth shootingstar"?"

Ho hum hee

"If my 4 year old daughter said that to me after I had asked her to stop doing something, I would probably fall back on that old trusted parental saying "As long as you're in my house you follow my rules"."

But I'm not your 4 year old daughter, now am I?


"It also seems a bit hypocritical since you have complained in the past about someone's language while in these forums. According to you I cannot tell them what they "can and cannot say". "

How dare you compare discussing the facts with peppering one's language with profanity.

"The people that bring you Animated News don't do all the things we do for this site because it's a job we make money at! We're actually losing money on this thing! We do this because we love animation and want to share our passion with the animation community. We ask nothing in return."

Tha's why we're all here.....no, wait, Parker and Stone pay me to make my posts for their own amusement.

"ou haven't seen the film, so even if you had stayed on topic how could you judge it?"

Why would anyone want to pay to go see a rotten crap fest film like this one?

"it actually has a very strong anti-terrorism-pro-unilateral action slant to it. "

that's not what I heard.


"But you're an adult! I think you can handle it! "

Then don't treat me like a child.

"I apologize to the other posters here for dragging this out."

You should apologize for making a mountain out of a non issue. We'll see if I post again but it looks very doubtful that things will go back as they were after such insult of my moral character.

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Postby Ben » November 20th, 2004, 1:00 pm

Ed, you sound like Roger Rabbit.

And can I just ask - especially since you were one of the first to pipe up about foul language on the boards - that you stop using the "crap" word.

You do seem to be bending back on your own morals recently.


Anyway, time this subject came to a close...