The Good Dinosaur

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by EricJ » December 10th, 2015, 12:02 am

Ben wrote:Well, to be fair, the headline is sensationalist but they do clarify it as a "failure" rather than a bomb in the story itself. And, being honest, that's what this is. At any rate, it is not a "hit film".
The myth of "Pixar's first flop" is, or was, practically the El Dorado (no pun intended) obsessively sought after for a decade by half the posters on the TAG Blog, because of their burning desire to have John Lasseter stumble so badly that heads roll, Disney tears their hair and rues the day they ever paid out all that money for Pixar, and they replace mean ol' John with that nice, easygoing Jeffrey Katzenberg, who's so much better a boss to work for.
And that was back when even the latter prospect seemed even remotely likely. :lol:

Between disgruntled animators, and frustrated analysts waiting for The Big Fall that was supposed to happen after Nemo, their Fox News desire to see it happen at all costs has become a running joke, even though we already seem to have had "Pixar's first flop" three times since then: An audience flop with Cars 2, a critical flop with Brave, and a financial flop with TGD, but they weren't really...."flop" flops. The first two made a profit, and the third either has some audiences liking it and others forgiving it for being the bastard child of a difficult birth. Unlike Treasure Planet and Princess & Frog, we didn't even "punish" it for not getting to #1 and beating Hunger Games and 007.
Think it goes back to the old John Carter argument of what is a Flop, and what is a Box-Office Disappointment--The Disappointment can have any excuse for underperforming, like a bad release date or competition, while the Flop was a misconceived disaster in the making that got what it should have seen coming if it had a moment of sanity.
For example, Winnie the Pooh '11 was a "disappointment" for being unfairly put up against Harry Potter, while Lone Ranger (and Tomorrowland) were "flops" for being just plain old nuts.

TGD's not a good film--and given Jim Hill's description of the Bob Peterson version, it's hard to say whether what we got was the lesser of two evils--but it's forgivable, while a "flop" is unforgivable.

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Dacey » December 10th, 2015, 12:40 am

Well, Princess and the Frog did get to #1 when it came out, so...

And "critical flop" Brave did win the Oscar for BFA, so...
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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by EricJ » December 10th, 2015, 12:00 pm

Dacey wrote:Well, Princess and the Frog did get to #1 when it came out, so...
Yes, but it had the December "Weekend of Death", when #1 meant (eek!) $24M, but nobody took that into account back then.

(As it happens, we've got the annual DWoD tomorrow to test out the theory--But while Star Wars has the "Avatar week" next week, it's hard to tell what this year's unfortunate lamb-to-the-slaughter is, since nobody really expects Ron Howard's whaling movie to do well anyway.)

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Dacey » December 10th, 2015, 6:35 pm

Odd thing about this "weekend of death" you speak of, considering it currently holds the spot for the December opening weekend record:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/ch ... =50&p=.htm

It also saw the releases of Smaug ($73 million), Holmes 2 ($39 million), I Am Legend ($77 million)...do I need to keep going? ;)
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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by EricJ » December 11th, 2015, 4:25 am

Dacey wrote:Odd thing about this "weekend of death" you speak of, considering it currently holds the spot for the December opening weekend record:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/ch ... =50&p=.htm

It also saw the releases of Smaug ($73 million), Holmes 2 ($39 million), I Am Legend ($77 million)...do I need to keep going? ;)
I was referring to the one that had Golden Compass, Voyage of the Dawn Treader and Day the Earth Stood still, but no, not really.

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Ben » December 11th, 2015, 12:19 pm

You mean The Day The Box-Office Stood Still...? ;)

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by EricJ » December 13th, 2015, 1:59 pm

Ben wrote:You mean The Day The Box-Office Stood Still...? ;)
Yeah, and not coincidentally, the day Ron Howard's Whale Movie made $11M.
(More to the point, analysts are asking, "Why did Hunger Games do so badly at #1 this week?"...Oh, let me think, could it be because most theaters are in shopping malls where no one wants to go near in the middle of December? Or, could it be that everyone's saving their family outing for the major-hyped tentpoles that are scheduled for the next two weeks?
Laugh, but I'm tellin' ya, if you're not a Hobbit sequel, you're playing with fate... :? )

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Ben » December 13th, 2015, 6:14 pm

TentpoleS? I can think of but one tentpole that's going to be playing gangbusters into the new year...

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Dacey » December 31st, 2015, 1:08 pm

Well, looks like I have to eat some crow regarding my box office expectations regarding The Good Dinosaur, although the reasons for that are apparently Disney's fault rather than the movie's.

According to a friend who works at a movie theater, Disney deliberately pulled the film from most locations--or severely limiting the number of showtimes to just morning shows--in order to make even more room for Star Wars. This happened even though the film was doing solid business where it was playing, according to her manager.

Not saying it would've "broken out" if they had kept it going, but Princess and the Frog would've never made it to the $100 million mark without those magical Christmas weekdays. And with very few options for families besides Star Wars right now--which really earns its PG-13 rating--, it seems like Disney left a lot of money of the table here...but it also seems like they don't care.
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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Ben » December 31st, 2015, 1:47 pm

The more people that missed it will get the disc, though...they're not dumb!

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by EricJ » December 31st, 2015, 2:20 pm

Dacey wrote:According to a friend who works at a movie theater, Disney deliberately pulled the film from most locations--or severely limiting the number of showtimes to just morning shows--in order to make even more room for Star Wars. This happened even though the film was doing solid business where it was playing, according to her manager.

Not saying it would've "broken out" if they had kept it going, but Princess and the Frog would've never made it to the $100 million mark without those magical Christmas weekdays. And with very few options for families besides Star Wars right now--which really earns its PG-13 rating--, it seems like Disney left a lot of money of the table here...but it also seems like they don't care.
Think that's confusing Dinosaur and Frog with Treasure Planet:
When Eisner pulled Treasure from theaters early in December, to avoid the embarrassment at the next quarterly meeting, that was when studios first noticed that Christmas family movies make their money over Christmas school vacation week...A mistake Disney and the other studios were careful to correct for the rest of the 00's.

Princess&Frog wasn't good-good--with or without the Weekend of Death :P --but even if it suffered because press analysts had "executed" the movie for flopping for their own imagined reasons ("2D is dead!" "It must have been because she was black!"), the appeal of the movie was way too weak to bring audiences back on word of mouth like Frozen and Ralph did.
Think Dinosaur would be in that latter category--After Inside Out, the press was willing to say that anything Pixar made after that would have us in tears, and after release, the word-of-mouth began to spread that little Arlo, um, didn't. When we got the "frightened parents" and "messy patched script" articles almost by the end of the first week, the writing was on the wall early enough to make it expendable.

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Ben » January 22nd, 2016, 7:04 pm

Whatever the consensus is on how Disney handled The Good Dinosaur, the film is inevitably - but rather inexplicably - being labelled Pixar's first real flop:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/g ... rst-857317

A bit harsh to call it a "disaster" though...even the article clarifies it's not exactly this, though it will be the first Pixar film to lose money.

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Dacey » January 22nd, 2016, 7:08 pm

"Disaster" makes a better click-bait headline. :roll:
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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Bill1978 » January 26th, 2016, 5:21 am

Caught this the other day with my 12 year old nephew. We were the only ones in the theate so we felt a bit like celebrities. And even though we were the only ones in the theatre we still whispered to each other...out of respect for the ghosts?

I have to agree that the scenery was very well done and to die for. The actual characters occassionally seemed a little out of place. I was concerned going into the viewing about the character design seeming a tad too cartoony but except for the T-Rexes everything else worked well. I don't know why the T-Rexes seemed out of place but they just did. Maybe my brain felt they were too chunky or something.

My major disappointment was that there really was no major reason for this to be a 'What if' scenario. Except for Spot, there is nothing to show what the world would have been like if the meteor had missed. I expected there to be more to that plot point instead of just using it as an excuse for the world to be inhabited by dino farmers. Spot could easily have been a primitive mammal and the concept would have still worked.

As someone who hasn't seen a lot of westerns - pretty much Back To The Future Part III and Disney's Home On The Range are my benchmark, this didn't really feel like a Western to me. I understand why people say it's a Dino Western but except for the Rex Ranchers, I wasn't getting a Western vibe.

The best part of the story for me was Poppa's attitude towards Arlo. Too often, especially in animation, the 'different' kid is looked on by the father as a shame to the family and is told endlessly that they are an embarrassment. While Poppa may have internally felt that way about Arlo (and definitely one look in the film indicates that) at no point did he criticise Arlo to his face or to the rest of the family. In fact he stood up for Arlo when others criticised Arlo. And the only time he did criticise Arlo, during the storm out of fear, I was impressed that Poppa quickly apologised for his negative words. It was really nice seeing this kind of parental relationship in the film.

And I admit, the parting of Arlo and Spot got to me. I think because it reminded me so much of the ending in Benji: The Hunted which traumatised my brothers and I as kids, that mum banned anymore Benji viewings.

So while this isn't Pixar's best, I wouldn't rank it as their worse. I would be more than happy to re-watch this movie. I think the problem with Pixar, is that they are so well known for pushing the envelope on animated movies, that when they release something just for 'fun' people are quick to say it sucks. Which is a shame, as some of their 'fun' movies are some of my favourite Pixar movies, while some of their critically loved movies are at the bottom of my must watch Pixar list.

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Re: The Good Dinosaur

Post by Ben » January 26th, 2016, 10:49 am

Not having seen Good Dino yet, I can't say...but go on...I'll bite: what be their worst? ;)

For me it's either Cars 2 (though that may have been more enjoyable without the first Cars!) or Monsters University which, despite a few laughs, had no reason to exist and, indeed, didn't line up with the first film, totally dumb when one is writing a fricken' *prequel*...!

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