Avengers and the MCU

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Vernadyn » May 9th, 2015, 4:20 am

No kidding about Civil War being Avengers 2.5--I mean, looking at the cast list, the only major ones missing are Thor and the Hulk.

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Ben » May 9th, 2015, 9:12 am

This is what I mean by saying the only downside to the MCU is that none of the single-character films have really been stand-alones.

The first Iron Man maybe, but that was because it pre-dated the MCU (they may have had a plan with the Samuel Jackson sting, but if the movie flopped it wouldn't have happened), and you could maybe say the same thing about the Hulk (though the sting was more integrated), but all the others have served the wider picture.

Iron Man 2 was basically the first Avengers-proper movie, while even Captain America: The First Avenger wore its intentions on its sleeve (even if Joe Johnston tried to keep it fairly clean and inserted a clear cut-off point where "his film" ended and then the MCU took over). Since then, each new film had really been a sequel to the last, with each one having some kind of nod or development to served the wider MCU rather than set up inherent sequels to their own films per se.

I guess you could say Guardians Of The Galaxy doesn't fit into this line, but even then Thanos is pulling the strings and a lot of what it set up will pay off in future films. None is this more so apparent than in Cap 3, or Avengers 2.5, where everyone will turn up except Hulk and Thor, who legitimately are out of the picture -- but because of events in the previous Avengers film...Civil War will feel much more of a sequel to Age Of Ultron than it does to The Winter Soldier (put it this way...you can't or won't be able to watch Cap 1, 2 and 3 as a coherent trilogy).

Disney did put out an Iron Man 1, 2, 3 bundle in some territories, but again I can't see how you can really sit through that as a trilogy, especially with 2 setting up SHIELD and heading off on its own track that doesn't seque into Iron Man Three, for which you need to have seen The Avengers in between to get the Battle Of New York stuff.

Don't get me wrong...this is NOT a complaint at all, just an observation (and a pretty obvious one at that). But I do kind of still feel that it would be nice, maybe when the MCU phases have run their course, to see some of these characters play out their own stories without having to serve multiple sequels and co-existing properties and films.

I do think it's very, very cool that they've tried this, and that they can crossover characters and storylines between films, but just let's not kid ourselves that at the end we'll also have coherent Captain America, Iron Man and Thor trilogies. The names may differ, but since the second Iron Man movie, these films have basically been one continuation of a theme, and all sequels to themselves rather than truly self-contained series with crossovers into the ongoing Avengers series.

This was all pretty clear from Iron Man 2 (and Iron Man Three especially), but that the next Cap film isn't even really a Cap film at all but rather another Avengers does make me a teeny, tiny, teensy little ikkle bit disappointed. Then again, if rumors of a death are to be believed (and the film will apparently differ from the comic story in many ways), then there may be good reason to preface the title with Cap's name.

It'll be very interesting if the DCU movies attempt the same thing or work more to keep the characters apart more in their own films. So far Batman has been Batman (even if there are rumblings that Affleck *is* actually the Bale Batman coming out of retirement to serve some kind of continuation) and Superman has been Man Of Steel, but the next Man Of Steel has already become a precursor for the Justice League, and we won't be getting a true Man Of Steel sequel yet, or even a "clean" Batman Vs Superman movie at this point.

That's all setting up the Justice League movies, natch, but we'll have to wait until Superman's next single-character film to see if they play off the back of the first Man Of Steeel or whether the Nolan-Snyder-verse is all going to be interconnected and again just a number of ongoing sequels...

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby LotsoA113 » May 9th, 2015, 9:32 am

Ben wrote:I do think it's very, very cool that they've tried this, and that they can crossover characters and storylines between films, but just let's not kid ourselves that at the end we'll also have coherent Captain America, Iron Man and Thor trilogies. The names may differ, but since the second Iron Man movie, these films have basically been one continuation of a theme, and all sequels to themselves rather than truly self-contained series with crossovers into the ongoing Avengers series.


Weirdly, I was just thinking yesterday how, if they do Civil War right, the Captain America trilogy could be one of the great cinematic trilogies of all-time. I love the idea that throughout this trilogy Steve Rogers has to grow from being just a scrawny kid from Brooklyn to standing his ground against former allies in Civil War. Again, if they do that 2016 film right, which is a big if, but considering how much I loved Age of Ultron, I'm confident they can do something special.
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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Ben » May 9th, 2015, 4:45 pm

I wasn't saying that Civil War won't be a good or even great film, but as a trilogy Cap just won't work.

You try sitting someone down who hasn't seen any other MCU film and ask them to make sense of the three Captain America films on their own. Doesn't work.

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby LotsoA113 » May 9th, 2015, 4:57 pm

I dunno, I actually think Winter Soldier works fine as a standalone sequel to the The First Avenger, though Civil War introducing a number of new characters (Iron Man, Ant-Man, Hawkeye, Black Panther) makes it difficult, though not impossible, to conclude as a cohesive trilogy.
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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Ben » May 9th, 2015, 6:33 pm

Well the official synopsis actually says that War will "pick up where Ultron left off", which in itself implies this is a follow up to that film and not Winter Soldier. And as you say, Cap will be a different man than he was at the start of First Avenger - but that is mostly because of the events of Ultron!

As the MCU phases continue, we're going to see even more crossovers and infiltrations from other characters into each other's films. Winter Soldier doesn't work as a direct Cap sequel as it references the Avengers and doesn't introduce Black Widow...she pre-exists because of previous non-Cap films.

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Randall » May 9th, 2015, 11:44 pm

Funny, but as a comic book reader,I never really considered these films as distinct series at all. It's just MCU Parts 1 through... wherever we are now--- regardless of titles. One film rolls into the next, which is fine by me. In fact, I love it. It's just like reading comic books from one of the Big Two publishers.

So, I don't feel a need for every character to have his own distinct trilogy of films. Sure, they may get packaged that way, but real fans will own them all anyway. In the comics, for better or worse. the publishers also want you to buy multiple titles to get the whole story. Even in the 1960s, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were intro'd in X-Men well before they were seen in Avengers. For that matter, readers of Journey Into Mystery met Loki well before Avengers #1 came out. And so on. It's all that inter-series continuity that Marvel Comics fans love (though it comes with its own pitfalls, of course).

Anyhoo, my boy and I saw Ultron tonight, and we both loved it. I think it's a stronger film than the first, actually. With all the mayhem on screen, I think it's easy to overlook just how well written it actually is. Sure, there are lots of critiques one can legitimately offer (some to Whedon, some to Kevin Feige maybe), but when you consider the scope of the thing, all the characters to juggle (several new ones, plus loads of returning faces), all the locales, and the tough job of making yet another superhero epic that doesn't feel stale... I think Whedon pulled off a pretty good job. The plot was coherent (though maybe only just), there was lots of humour, and a fair amount of heart. Lots of action, too, of course. I loved the farm stuff, and all the character interplay throughout. Now THAT is a comic book come to life. It won't win an Oscar, but it sure put smiles on the faces of me and my son. I glowed every time he said, "Hey, dad, do you remember where that character is from?", or, "Whoa, look who's there! It's that guy! I love that guy!" What a great night at the movies for us. And I'm grateful to live in a time where these films exist.

And how the film ended? Perfect. While certain aspects may disappoint some, it's largely true in spirit to how the comics went, and will nicely set up Civil War. Just like the comics, these are indeed "the continuing adventures" of our heroes! :)

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Ben » May 10th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Exactly the pont I was making...these films are precisely MCU Part I, Part II, etc. And nothing wrong with that - as I said, it's very cool that they've been able to pull this off, but a small part of me does hope that we might get some stand-alone takes on some of these characters that do make up their own series of films. Maybe I guess I just wish Civil War was maybe preceded by The Avengers in the title rather than Captain America...?

I'm glad you both liked Ultron...I will likely like it more when I see it again, but it fell short of the first for me. From the buildup I think I was hoping for something truly amazing and what I got was a perfectly good comic book movie, but not a great one. I too have hopes for Avengers 2.5...oops...Cap 3: Civil War, though!

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Randall » May 10th, 2015, 9:54 pm

Expectations for Age of Ultron may have been too high. As someone else has said, this was a really good "Annual" story from the comics, but not intended to be something any bigger than that. As such, I loved it.

My brother thought the film was weak, but he disliked it for all the reasons that I liked it! i.e. specific character development, the farm scene, etc.

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Dan » September 14th, 2015, 8:55 am

With the film now available for digital download, some fans have been Easter Egg hunting. It would appear one has been found that connects with Big Hero 6.

Source: http://hellogiggles.com/avengers-2-big-hero-6/

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Dacey » April 12th, 2016, 11:25 pm

Wasn't sure where to put this. Do we have an all around "Marvel Cinematic Universe" thread anywhere?



As awesome as this looks, Benedict's "accent" seems a bit inconsistent here. At first it sounds like he's attempting to do "American," but later on it sounds more like his normal voice?
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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby EricJ » April 12th, 2016, 11:54 pm

Might fit in with Avengers canon, since the Reality-altering stone is one of the gems needed for the Infinity (=Avengers 3) Gauntlet, and looks like that's what the villain is playing with.
Hard to say after that, as I never really knew what the heck the Doc did in the Avengers and never read his solo comic, so can't gauge how close they hit on accuracy.

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Re: Avengers 2 Age of Ultron

Postby Ben » April 13th, 2016, 4:16 am

With you on the accent, thought it was good at first but that "teach me" is pure Sherlock.

I guess this thread could be retitled, since it has moved on to Cap 3 and now Doc Strange.

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Re: Avengers 2 and the MCU

Postby Dan » April 13th, 2016, 8:23 pm

Michael Keaton is being eyed to play the villain in Spider-Man. 8)

Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/michael-keaton-spider-man-villain-homecoming-2-1201752759/

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Re: Avengers 2 and the MCU

Postby EricJ » April 13th, 2016, 8:35 pm

(Note the new title: "Spider-Man: Homecoming".
Yep, no matter what script story they use to justify it, you KNOW they did that one on purpose. :) )