Official Star Wars Thread

Features, Shorts, Live-Action and Direct-To-Video
Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 6416
Joined: October 16th, 2004, 7:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby James » December 15th, 2017, 9:34 am

Like TFA, I had some issues with plot contrivances, and I don’t like how they resolved some of the questions from that first film, but overall really enjoyed it.

User avatar
Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 17960
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 1:27 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Ben » December 15th, 2017, 5:19 pm

One question...if Ben/Kylo spent all that time looking for Luke, why didn’t he just go back to the Jedi island that he had been training with him on? :roll:

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 6416
Joined: October 16th, 2004, 7:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby James » December 15th, 2017, 5:44 pm

I think they said in the first one that Luke left to look for the original Jedi temple after the fiasco with Ben.

User avatar
Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 17960
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 1:27 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Ben » December 15th, 2017, 7:45 pm

...but wasn’t that on the same island? Looked like the same huts to me.

User avatar
Animated Views Staff
Animated Views Staff
Posts: 1220
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:56 pm

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Dan » December 15th, 2017, 11:05 pm

I never had the impression Ben/Kylo's training was on the same island (or even planet) as where Luke exiled himself on. I think I have this impression that Luke had set up shop somewhere that was acceptably nearby to Leia (and probably Han).

Hidden for being a slight spoiler:
click to reveal content
And I'm also of the opinion that if the training had been on the same island, Ben/Kylo would've felt the wrath of those caretakers as soon as he destroyed his hut, he wouldn't have had time to round up the Knights of Ren to burn down the temple. :wink:

User avatar
Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 17960
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 1:27 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Ben » December 16th, 2017, 3:59 am

True, I guess. I can’t wait to open up the conversation after the weekend, so we can have some spolieriffic conversations!

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 375
Joined: March 19th, 2010, 8:05 pm
Location: Probably Cinemark

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby LotsoA113 » December 16th, 2017, 12:15 pm

At the risk of sounding like some sort of fanboy (perish the thought!), Star Wars: The Last Jedi is a flat out phenomenal movie from top to bottom. I am so happy right now just realizing how good, inspirational, well written, exciting and awesome The Last Jedi is.

Here's the best part about this motion picture; it's so character focused and intimate. No planets get blown up here, no doomsday machines to be stopped, victories typically come in smaller but exponentially meaningful ways that feel incredibly realistic. Don't worry, plenty of beautifully realized space dogfights and lightsaber duels ensue in the plot to give you your fill of science fiction action, but good gravy, I love the way this movie handles the journeys of its large ensemble cast. Even in a movie jam packed with characters, it doesn't feel crowded or overstuffed. The story, especially in its gangbusters third act, just flows so organically and makes time for each of these characters, new and old, to shine. All the while, the scripts emphasis on how powerful Hope and selflessness can be ring true while the ways it's various characters grapple with the past is utterly fascinating to watch. And yes, it's plot does, in fact, manage to ring so true to the 2017 political climate.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi isn't afraid to be a thoughtful character piece when it needs to be but it's also delightfully adept at creating moments of pure joy, realized through real showmanship and a sense of wonder, when the time falls for it. There's a handful of scenes and pieces of dialogue in here that already feel like they're gonna be talked about as all-time great Star Wars sequences or quotes in the future and rightfully so. Hell, I know I'm at least gonna be talking about Star Wars: The Last Jedi for a long time to come and while it's a guarantee most of you reading this were bound to check out a new Star Wars movie theatrically, just know that what's in store for you is truly special. Writer/director Rian Johnson, take a bow, you've more than deserved it.
I love all things cinema, from silent movies to world cinema to animated cinema to big blockbusters to documentaries and everything in between!

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 4933
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 11:21 pm
Location: SaskaTOON, Canada

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Randall » December 17th, 2017, 4:08 pm

It was almost odd just how relatively small the stakes were in this one. Yes, much hinged on the outcome, but as Lotso said, no planets were being blown up. And the biggest chase scene, taking up most of the film, was practically a slow-motion affair.

I liked the film a lot, but it was in many ways a smaller film, and certainly a middle chapter. Lots of consequence happened for sure, yet the big fight remains to be fought.

I have to say that I love how they are casting these films. "Diversity" may be an eye-rolling swear word for some, but I love how films like this and Spidey: Homecoming are being made to reflect the audience. Even as a white male, I love how much more "real" and relatable it makes the events seem. It was wonderful that one of the heroes of Last Jedi, aside from being a minority female, was not an idealized beauty--- just a real person with her heart in the right place.

Lots of humour, but I didn't find it any "goofier" than prior SW films. There were plot contrivances, though, particularly Del Toro's character's presence.

And.... It was definitely a different planet.

There is, of course, the big plot hole about a certain plan that a certain someone kept from the troops, even as they wanted to mutiny. Why the heck wouldn't the leader just tell them what the plan was?!

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 375
Joined: March 19th, 2010, 8:05 pm
Location: Probably Cinemark

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby LotsoA113 » December 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Randall wrote:
I have to say that I love how they are casting these films. "Diversity" may be an eye-rolling swear word for some, but I love how films like this and Spidey: Homecoming are being made to reflect the audience. Even as a white male, I love how much more "real" and relatable it makes the events seem. It was wonderful that one of the heroes of Last Jedi, aside from being a minority female, was not an idealized beauty--- just a real person with her heart in the right place.


Considering how I'm sometimes the only white guy in the room in my college classes and at my work, this kind of diverse casting feels like American blockbuster cinema finally catching up to reality and I love it, especially since it unearths newfound movie stars like Kelly Marie Tran (holy goodness, is she ever great in this).

Plus, a greater amount of diversity allows for specific audience members to see themselves in the on-screen galactic heroes and that really does make a difference (Kumail Nanjiani's reaction to Riz Ahmed's hero character in Rogue One was a great example of this).
I love all things cinema, from silent movies to world cinema to animated cinema to big blockbusters to documentaries and everything in between!

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 4933
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 11:21 pm
Location: SaskaTOON, Canada

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Randall » December 18th, 2017, 8:08 pm

Exactly. Everyone needs role models, and it IS important that younger viewers especially see heroes on screen that they can identify with. While watching Miss Tran's engaging performance, I thought it was really wonderful that young Asian girls (in particular, that is) have her character to look up to. Naturally, we can ALL appreciate how great her character and her performance were. As I said, once you add in the fact that her character was not glamourized, and if anything looked chunky in that costume, then one can appreciate the casting (and makeup and costuming) decisions even more.

My wife is Filipino, so my son even took pleasure in seeing how Spidey's best friend was Filipino in the last film. This stuff really does matter.

Those who call such casting "pandering" or "PC casting" really need to get off their computers and take a look outside. The reality is, Canada and the US are no longer white-only countries, and have not been for a long time. (Of course, I realize that that goes for many, many other countries as well!)

I always recall what Brian Michael Bendis said about creating the Miles Morales version of SpIdey. (Miles is a mix of Latino and black.) He thought the idea of pandering was ridiculous. He noted that he only creates characters based on what he sees living in a big city like New York or Seattle. And if others can't see that, they either live in the boonies, or aren't paying attention.

Anyhow, it might be one small detail when discussing the whole film, but I thought it worth mentioning. I'm glad you agree.

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 6416
Joined: October 16th, 2004, 7:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby James » December 18th, 2017, 9:09 pm

I don’t think most people eye roll “diversity” in film. I think they eye roll bad/blatant diversity. Spider and Star Wars didn’t feel forced. The people in it fit naturally and really could have been played by anyone. Their race/gender wasn’t their reason for being.

Other films almost feel like they’re congratulating themselves during the movie for being so woke. Or a film where they purposely take a character and change their race/gender for no reason other than to get the accolades for being so progressive. Those are the things that gets annoying.

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 4933
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 11:21 pm
Location: SaskaTOON, Canada

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Randall » December 18th, 2017, 11:10 pm

I hear what you're saying (though you nearly lost me at "bad/blatant diversity," until you explained what you meant), and I do hope that the majority embrace it. I do, however, recall a lot of fuss being made by a few nuts about having a black person being a hero in Star Wars: The Force Awakens. It may be only a vocal minority, but I do think it's more than just 2 or 3 guys.

As for the smug posturing (not to put words in your mouth, but I think that's the gist of what you're saying) that leads to gender and race changes in established characters... I understand and respect that you are annoyed by it, but I can't say it bothers me. (The exception might be when it really doesn't make sense--- like seeing so many of African descent living in a quaint French village in Beauty and the Beast; but, on the other hand, it's a fantasy world to begin with, so I went with it.) So much of this is so overdue, and the original material still exists anyhow, if one wishes to enjoy it in its original form. I know that Marvel's taken some heat for it in their comics, too, by passing on heroic mantles to female or minority characters; but in that case, I think that after 50 years it's time to freshen things up a bit.

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 2899
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 2:06 pm

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby EricJ » December 19th, 2017, 9:28 pm

Basically, like JJ Abrams set out to "homage" the original Star Wars, Rian Johnson decided it was his own destiny in life to do the "New-trilogy Empire Strikes Back"--

And in addition to going through every major plot point in Empire AND Jedi (even the Falcon flying through the salt caves uncannily resembles the Death Star plumbing), he seemed to be making it from the later fan-generation viewpoint that the sun, moon and stars of the franchise shine out of Empire Strikes Back's hinder.
And all they seem to remember of it is, "It was so cool, and DARK, and COMPLEX! Luke learns the truth about his father! The Rebellion loses and has to retreat! It ends on a downbeat unresolved note! It wasn't anything like the first film...It was so CHALLENGING!!"

Err, yeah. That's pretty much what he gives us for two and a half hours, as characters keep turning good, turning bad, turning Light Side, turning Dark Side, abandoning their principles, reawakening their principles, and after a marathon of "turning", we start to feel dizzy. It would be nice if we had a character with some actual moral arc we could sympathize with for the whole film, rather than worry about whether they'd be "tempted" every other scene like, well, Luke was in Empire and Jedi.

Animated Views Admin
Animated Views Admin
Posts: 4933
Joined: October 22nd, 2004, 11:21 pm
Location: SaskaTOON, Canada

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby Randall » December 19th, 2017, 10:42 pm

I don't think that this film was ever NOT going to be this trilogy's Empire. But I didn't find it nearly as derivative of Episode V as I found Force Awakens to be derivative of Episode IV. Last Jedi still managed to be very much its own thing. Certain similarities are almost unavoidable, really.

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 2899
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 2:06 pm

Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Postby EricJ » December 20th, 2017, 4:30 pm

Randall wrote:I don't think that this film was ever NOT going to be this trilogy's Empire. But I didn't find it nearly as derivative of Episode V as I found Force Awakens to be derivative of Episode IV. Last Jedi still managed to be very much its own thing. Certain similarities are almost unavoidable, really.


Snoke vs. Rey was so very, very calisthenically trying to be new-generation Emperor vs. Luke from Jedi, I was literally waiting for them to fan-homage some spin on "Do not pay the price for your lack of vision", or "Oh, the shields will be quite operational"...
Only now we get the cool twist-upon-twist that
click to reveal content
family-love wins out, Kylo destroys the Emp...Supreme Leader--and without shouting "Nooo!"--but guess what? He supplants Snoke and goes back to being evil again! How's them apples grab ya for another dark twist, OG fans? :roll:


And so on. And so on. And so on. When even Benecio Del Toro and Laura Dern play turnabout in the climax(ES), it's like we're watching a self-conscious game of moral Hot Potato, and we don't even care who drops it anymore by this point.