How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

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How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 12th, 2014, 6:50 pm

I'm fairly new to this site and have really enjoyed looking around so far. Although I could probably find the answer to my question by reading various reviews and forum discussion, I'd rather ask everyone directly - how do you feel about the overall quality of Disney and Pixar's recent releases?

When Lasseter came into control, I had high hopes that he and Iger would usher in a major comeback for WDAS. And at first, they seemed to be succeeding. Pixar reached its pinnacle shortly after being acquired by Disney; Meet the Robinsons was a step in the right direction for WDAS; Bolt was surprisingly good; and even though I personally found The Princess and the Frog to be underwhelming, I at least appreciated the return to the traditionally-animated musical. At first, Tangled had me really worried with its name change and marketing, but the actual film turned out to be excellent. Even Winnie the Pooh was really good for what it was.

Everything started falling apart for me though, from Cars 2 onward. I doubt that I have to explain why that film was a disappointment. However, honestly, Brave was an even bigger disappointment for me (which isn't to say that it was a worse film; just that it had a lot more potential). I know that it got a pretty good review on this site. It certainly did have some redeeming elements. But as a whole, I just didn't enjoy it. And I know that I'm far from the only one.

Wreck-It Ralph was solid, as was Monsters University. I left both films feeling satisfied. Still, I would stop short of calling either of them great.

Aaaaaaaaaaand now we get to Frozen. I have no idea how everyone here feels about the film, but the general public consensus seems to be that it's an absolute triumph for Disney. I'll readily admit, I adored the first third of the film or so. But it peaked for me during the "Let it Go" sequence and fell steeply downhill from there. Anna and Kristoff's adventures through the kingdom seemed overly reminiscent of Rapunzel and Flynn's, while Sven was a direct rip-off of Maximus - I mean seriously, how lazy must Disney have been to go with that idea? Even had Tangled never happened, I still would have preferred the film without Kristoff or Sven. They just distracted from the relationship between Anna and Elsa, which is what made the film's first act so fascinating to me. Also, I have to say, (and I may be alone in this but), I wish that they had made Elsa a tragic, deeply sympathetic villain, rather than a slightly flawed protagonist. The film would have been a lot more complex that way.
Not to mention that Hans made for a really dull villain. The twist at the end just felt hackneyed, as did Anna's "death" and "resurrection" (which again, was pretty much a direct rip-off from Tangled)
I saw Big Hero 6 a few days ago, and agree with everything that James Whitson said in his review, except that for me, the story problems and thin characterizations heavily outweigh the good parts of the film (of which I'll admit, there were several). Actually, both Frozen and Big Hero 6 left me with very similar impressions - great first act, pointless second act, and cliched third act.

Anyways, I'm sure that I'm in a small minority when I say that Tangled (or to a lesser extent Winnie the Pooh) was the last film by either Disney or Pixar that really won me over. Still, I'd love to hear how people feel the recent string of films compare to say, those of the 90s. And how has Lasseter's performance compared so far to your early expectations for him? I have to wonder whether he's faced much opposition from Iger and other execs, or if he's just grown complacent in the wake of huge financial/critical successes....or maybe my taste is just radically different from the mainstream. I don't know. I do know that I'd love to read a tell-all book someday, about these past several years at the Mouse House.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Randall » November 12th, 2014, 10:51 pm

Like any other studio, they have hits and misses. But overall, the past few years have been great for their animation studio(s).

After Treasure Planet, Brother Bear, Home on the Range, and Chicken Little, the studio looked doomed. Looking at things in that context, their resurgence is a minor miracle. Their last few films have ranged from okay to fantastic, and to me there's not a stinker in the bunch.

As for Pixar, they have lost a bit of their shine folowing Cars 2 and Brave (though it did get that Oscar, somehow, so there's still that), but they are still the premiere animation studio, the one everyone looks up to. A couple more lacklustre films might just take that away, but for now Pixar is at the top of the heap.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Ben » November 13th, 2014, 5:40 am

I basically agree with you, JP. I does seem that, as Disney has risen, Pixar has taken a tumble, though both are doing better and more original work than anyone else out there.

With Pixar very much being born from Disney (Lasseter learning his craft there), being nurtured by Disney (in the making of their first films) and ultimately being bought wholesale by Disney (and then Lasseter returning to oversee both divisions), I actually place the Pixar films in my Disney animation collection. To me, you have people like Brenda Chapman and others essentially hopping from studio to studio, plus the same leadership at the top of the heap...they're more like two units of the same company operating now rather than "competitors", especially since a "Disney" movie would never open near a "Pixar" movie or vice-versa.

Disney/Disney-Pixar is top of the game...but as two different sides of the same coin. :)

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 13th, 2014, 10:49 am

I can agree that Disney is generally doing better work than they were in the first half of the 2000s. And yeah, taken with Pixar, it probably constitutes the two most consistent Western animation studios. But from where I stand, they get that reputation by default. DreamWorks isn't exactly in my good books right now either. Admittedly, I've missed several of that studios' recent films (Rise of the Guardians, Turbo, Madagascar 3, Mr. Peabody and Sherman). But How to Train Your Dragon 2 was even more overrated than Frozen in my opinion, while Kung Fu Panda 2, Puss in Boots, and The Croods were all just okay for me. And that leaves, what? Blue Sky? Illumination? Even Aardman has been slipping lately.

I'll admit, I'm a very critical filmgoer. Animation is hardly the only sector in which acclaimed crowd pleasers have been leaving me cold lately. But I love classic Disney and everything that Pixar did up through Toy Story 3. All kinds of other animated films have won me over from Hoodwinked! to Coraline, to The Adventures of Tintin, to The Lego Movie. It just seems to me that Disney is getting complacent. I mean, even the reviewer here found a lot to criticize in Big Hero 6. And I know that he called it "nitpicking", but to me, a predictable storyline and thin characterizations shouldn't be taken as minor issues with a film. If he was still able to enjoy Big Hero 6 as pure entertainment, then hey, that's great for him! But I feel like Disney used to offer us a lot more.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Ben » November 13th, 2014, 1:54 pm

Everyone used to offer us a lot more.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 13th, 2014, 3:10 pm

Haha, well that's certainly true. The overall state of Hollywood hasn't been very good these days. I guess that's why it's been so frustrating for me to hear all the good buzz surrounding movies like HtTYD 2, Frozen, and Big Hero 6, only to discover that they're really average movies in my estimation.

I'm still waiting for Disney to make a genuine comeback - so far, it feels like they've done little more than retreat from Chicken Little.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 13th, 2014, 3:39 pm

And I get that for some people, Disney has made a fantastic comeback already. It's certainly not my intention to suggest that anyone is wrong if they find Disney's recent films to be equal to the studio's earlier efforts. To each their own.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by EricJ » November 13th, 2014, 5:33 pm

I still say it:
Watch "Meet the Robinsons" from beginning to end, and you will actually SEE the change in studio regime from Stainton to Lasseter, right before your very eyes.
You can't sum it up better than comparing the two science-fair scenes, one at Stainton's desperate original gagged-up Dreamworks-clone beginning, and the other at the huggy Lasseter-fixed end.

(I couldn't stand Frozen, and found Big Hero 6 somewhat wanting, but I'll watch them turn Dreamworks' and BlueSky's output into paste any day of the week...)
All kinds of other animated films have won me over from Hoodwinked! to
:shock:
(Okay, that's just...)

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 13th, 2014, 8:19 pm

Yeah, yeah, I know. Here I am saying that Disney's recent releases are overrated, and then I turn around and advocate for Hoodwinked! The film was certainly imperfect and the animation itself was bad. But what can I say? I found the storytelling to be pretty creative. The film had a razor sharp wit (it actually contains some of my all time favorite comedy moments). And the voice acting is stellar - the Wolf is my favorite Warburton voice role, and Andy Dick's take on Boingo is underrated.

Again, to each their own.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Dan » November 14th, 2014, 1:01 am

I really like the output of films Disney has been putting out since the regime change. Where the films rank on my Disney canon list is a difficult venture for me to do (though I've been thinking serious thoughts about revisiting the marathon run I once did during high school when I got sick one week). Nevertheless, I'm really happy to see the films as good as they are and rank them in fairly good ranks amongst the animation films of the last ten years at least.

I actually like the first Hoodwinked!, to be honest. Yes, the animation is nowhere in league with Disney or Dreamworks and the story is hardly polished, if at all, but there was a genuine sense of joy I found in watching the film. Of course, I've been avoiding the second film like the plague because I just knew right from the word go that it was not going to be as enjoyable.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by droosan » November 14th, 2014, 1:34 am

Speaking as someone whose childhood years spanned Disney's Ron Miller era .. I sincerely can't consider anything released by the Disney studio in the past 20 years to be 'mediocre'. :roll:

Even though I can acknowledge that Disney went through an 'awkward phase' in the early/mid-2000s, I still found at least something to enjoy in every film they made during that period.

Today's animation industry is an 'embarrassment of riches', compared to the 1970s .. on film and television. This may contribute to the perception of Disney as somehow 'less special' than they used to be .. but even among today's field of DreamWorks, Blue Sky, Sony and a dozen smaller concerns (most of whom, IMO, make 'high-quality' films themselves) -- the Walt Disney Animation Studio remains preeminent in artistry, story-telling and (especially) box-office clout.

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I agree with Ben that Pixar and Disney are now pretty much two sides of the same coin .. and that Pixar has been, from its beginning, basically an unofficial 'offshoot' from the Disney studio.

What I don't agree with is the general complaint (not just here, but elsewhere online) that Pixar has somehow 'betrayed their principles' in crafting sequels to their amazing library of films .. even when most of the sequels they've made thus far have proven enjoyable in their own right. :|

Pixar's third theatrical film was a sequel to their first. They made a sequel before DreamWorks did .. before Blue Sky had even made their first film. That they'd waited nearly a decade before making another sequel is anomalous for any studio -- animated or live-action.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by EricJ » November 14th, 2014, 2:38 am

What I don't agree with is the general complaint (not just here, but elsewhere online) that Pixar has somehow 'betrayed their principles' in crafting sequels to their amazing library of films .. even when most of the sequels they've made thus far have proven enjoyable in their own right. :|
Pixar's third theatrical film was a sequel to their first. They made a sequel before DreamWorks did .. before Blue Sky had even made their first film. That they'd waited nearly a decade before making another sequel is anomalous for any studio -- animated or live-action.
Of course, let's remind people--again--that most of the recent spate of Pixar sequels, including the one they, quote, "waited" to make, were forced on them by Legal, owing to a few sad legacies of the Eisner era.
And even doing what basically amounted to a contract obligation, they STILL managed to make them more creative than we were reasonably expecting them to.
(Cars 2 doesn't count, that was just the boss's idea that went wrong.)

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Jpcase » November 14th, 2014, 2:43 am

Of course, I've been avoiding the second film like the plague because I just knew right from the word go that it was not going to be as enjoyable.
Good call. It honestly ranks among the worst films that I've ever seen. The first film's director, Cory Edwards, has even denounced it!
I sincerely can't consider anything released by the Disney studio in the past 20 years to be 'mediocre'.
So you found Brother Bear, Home on the Range, and Chicken Little to all be above-average? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't seen any of these since I was a kid - maybe they're better than their reputations would have me to believe. But I didn't exactly fall in love with any of them when I was younger, so I'd be highly surprised if I enjoyed them more now.
What I don't agree with is the general complaint (not just here, but elsewhere online) that Pixar has somehow 'betrayed their principles' in crafting sequels to their amazing library of films.
I'll actually side with you on this...sort of. There's nothing inherently wrong with Pixar making more sequels. They could turn every single one of their films into a trilogy for all I care, so long as their commitment to quality still shines through. The studio has certainly never seemed to be anti-sequel. Their stance, I believe, has always been, "We'll do it, if the story feels right." The problem for me, and where I do feel that they've slightly betrayed their principles, is that the last two sequels didn't feel right. Obviously this is a matter of taste. For all I know, Lasseter could feel that Cars 2 and Monsters University were every bit as good as their predecessors. But the general consensus seems to be that Cars 2 was more-or-less a bad film, and that Monsters University, while perfectly adequate, didn't quite live up to the high standards that Pixar was supposed to have.

I've got to say though, Toy Story 4 simply makes me unhappy. It's cool that Lasseter's apparently going to direct and all. But it's so rare that a series gets to end on the perfect note, and Toy Story 3 was one of the rare films that pulled it off. I'd gladly accept another movie set in the same world, but another adventure with Woody, Buzz, and the gang doesn't float my boat. Even if the film turns out to be another masterpiece, something is going to be sacrificed in returning to those characters.

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by droosan » November 14th, 2014, 4:01 am

Jpcase wrote:
droosan wrote:I sincerely can't consider anything released by the Disney studio in the past 20 years to be 'mediocre'.
So you found Brother Bear, Home on the Range, and Chicken Little to all be above-average? I'm genuinely asking, as I haven't seen any of these since I was a kid - maybe they're better than their reputations would have me to believe. But I didn't exactly fall in love with any of them when I was younger, so I'd be highly surprised if I enjoyed them more now.
Yes, indeed.

Again: my childhood Disney experiences include the likes of The AristoCats, Bedknobs & Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon, Herbie Goes Bananas .. that's where my bar of 'Disney mediocrity' was forged .. and yes; all three of the films you'd listed stand 'head-and-shoulders' above most stuff from back then, IMO.

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Brother Bear is an artistic triumph, featuring some of the lushest background paintings in the modern Disney era. The intense study of animal anatomy that went into the production is abundantly evident. The switch to Cinemascope (and a more-vivid color palette) which occurs at the moment when Kenai awakens as a bear made for an inspired 'magical' moment. Story-wise, perhaps it's a bit predictable .. and music-wise, somewhat forgettable (I love me some Tina Turner, but I can't recall a single theme, ATM) .. but it had drama, action and humor in all the right places and amounts (c'mon! Bob & Doug McKenzie as moose was a welcome chunk of fun in an otherwise-'heavy' story dealing with revenge and guilt).

Home on the Range is one of those movies that went through multiple massive changes of staff and story throughout its development -- emerging completely different in tone from what it had started-out to be (a phenomenon which has seemingly only become more common at many studios, in recent years). Still, the film has to be judged for what it 'is', rather than what it 'might've been' .. and it is a good deal of fun to watch. The cartoony drawing style allows for humorous expressions and over-the-top action. Buck the horse is a great supporting character, and Alameda Slim ranks pretty highly among Disney's 'silly' villains (up there with McLeach in The Rescuers Down Under, IMO). Plus, Slim's hypnotic yodeling tune features some insanely surreal imagery, evocative of "Pink Elephants on Parade".

Chicken Little is just pure fun, throughout. It owes a more than a bit of its story-telling style to what Dreamworks was doing at the time than to what people traditionally thought of as a 'Disney'-style film (though, it was right in-line with director Mark Dindal's film-making style; he had previously directed Cats Don't Dance and The Emperor's New Groove). I really liked the 'Richard Scarry-esque' design style of CL's town .. and the quirky zaniness of his friends -- especially Fish Out of Water. :lol: Both the baseball game and the "sky is falling" setpieces are incredibly well-crafted scenes, IMO.

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so (just as you say), "to each their own", etc :wink:

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Re: How does everyone feel about Disney these days?

Post by Bill1978 » November 14th, 2014, 4:51 am

I guess this is a good as place as any to put this thought down instead of opening a new thread for a random thought. Lately I've just been thinking about how I (or the general public) could tell the difference between a Disney film and a Pixar film these days. And I honestly can't. When Pixar came they were the computer cartoon people while Disney was the hand drawn cartoon people. Today I honestly don't think there is any true way of differentiating between the two except one will begin with a bouncing lamp while the other will begin with a whistling mouse. It' not a bad thing and if it 'fools' people to supporting a film they may not have in the past I guess I'm all for it but I just feel that both companies have lost a bit of their identity once Disney went computer.

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