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Post by Ben » July 14th, 2010, 12:34 pm

If it was so good, that would be an emotional response, for which it could be nominated for a Screenplay Oscar. If it was the visuals that made it so good, that would be correctly nominated for Visual Effects.

An "animated film" is more than just the technique, yes, but it has to be "animated" to begin with, and completely rotoscoping or mo-capping movement is *not* animation, hence it shouldn't compete with films where the movement has been painstakingly achieved through frame by frame creation.

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Post by EricJ » July 14th, 2010, 10:16 pm

Think it was trying to draw some line at whether mo-cap characters qualify as Animation or Visual Effects,
A) as an excuse to "validate" Avatar staying in the Best Picture lead (because the voters all wanted to be Cameron's friend), instead of being "downgraded" to Animated, and
B) trying to establish some boundaries that would keep "Alvin & the Chipmunks" OUT of Best Animated, as there had been some complaints about it being up for consideration just on a percentage-of-animation rule.

MTV Movie Awards had already separated a category for Best Virtual Character, and while that was just cool-pop-culture at the time, it's almost on the edge of becoming a real category. Not that I would actually want to see it become a recognized category, but helps to get the lines drawn before it does.

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Post by Ben » July 15th, 2010, 8:12 am

I don't agree on the virtual character thing...long before CGI or mo-cap we had virtual characters. Kermit The Frog, Yoda, even Howdy Doody and the like were virtual characters in their way. Maybe no mo-cap/CGI or always "added in later", but the results of movie tricks to make them believable.

The ironic thing is, of course, that Alvin, Garfield, etc, are all keyframed, so they're more validly claimed as being suitable for the BAF award than most other VFX entries. In theory, if The Smurfs has over the % of animated screen time in the film, it would be valid for consideration as a nominee, even though I believe that those kinds of films should be counted as VFX elements, just like Harryhausen's characters or the dinos of Jurassic Park were.

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Disney/Pixar withdraws from Annie Awards

Post by James » August 25th, 2010, 12:42 pm

Disney/Pixar has decided to withdraw from Annie Awards following concerns over the judging criteria.

http://animatedviews.com/2010/disney-wi ... ie-awards/

Don't want to say "I told you so" but...
James wrote:I actually think this is going to hurt the credibility of the Annies. A film that many thought would get a best picture nomination and tied Beauty and the Beast for the most Oscar nominations ever didn't pick up one single Annie? They may revamp their weird voting rules after this.
http://animatedviews.com/forum/viewtopi ... &start=303

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Re: Disney/Pixar withdraws from Annie Awards

Post by GeorgeC » August 25th, 2010, 1:03 pm

EDITED my post...

I'm going to take a wait-and-see attitude.

I still think that this action reeks of a lot of the personality conflicts and back-room politicking that's been going on for as long as anyone can remember in professional organizations. It's gotten really ugly the past few years from what I gather online and from what I've been hearing from pros.

This stinks, and I really don't think it's Disney's fault.

If my suspicions are true, then the pro industry only has itself to blame for this sad situation.

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Post by Ben » August 25th, 2010, 1:55 pm

I'm not surprised they're making a big thing of it, but pulling out completely? Seems a bit over the top to me. It's true the voting can be seen to be rigged in some way, but they could offer their staff ASIFA memberships too. And who's to say there just aren't more professionals out there working today that actually warmed to Kung Fu Panda over WALL-E?

Let's not forget that Shrek won over Monsters Inc at the Oscars - an obvious mistake in hindsight, but what are Disney going to do? Boycott the Oscars too? The landscape has changed and Pixar are not the only people making quality animated features out there anymore. And it's not like they can automatically count on their Disney people to ballot for them, since by many accounts they're not being treated as well as the Pixar folk so how can they expect the loyalty?

If they're worried about fans and enthusiasts voting the "wrong way" or "tactical voting", they surely have to see that it can work in Pixar's favor too: mostly the fanboys will go for anything by Pixar over a DreamWorks picture, but the truth is that DWs has been putting out some good stuff. Yes, it's more commercial than Pixar's films, but not so much more than recent Disney films. And there were some stunning things going on in Dragon and Shrek 4 at times.

I'd like a better understanding of what problems they have with the voting, because whatever way you slice it, this seems like they're throwing a strop that is ultimately unfair to their thousands of artists who now won't necessarily be noted or have their films nominated in what has become the animated Academy Awards (and still a big publicity plus for winners in that campaign come Oscar time).

I agree that I don't think this is Disney/Pixar's fault, and they are obviously only trying to highlight a greater problem. But the danger is that they are adding to it and, although I can see they must have their reasons, it could hurt their own morale and the wider animation community as a whole.

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Re: Disney/Pixar withdraws from Annie Awards

Post by droosan » August 25th, 2010, 3:02 pm

Actually, ASIFA-Hollywood has recently changed its voting policy so that only 'registered professional' members can vote on Annie Awards categories. I declined to send them my 'credentials' for their review .. so I guess I won't be voting, this year. :?

It's a mess, to be sure. :roll:
Last edited by droosan on August 25th, 2010, 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by James » August 25th, 2010, 3:16 pm

I think what everyone is focusing on (KFP beating WALL-E) is missing the point. IIRC WALL-E was shut out of EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY that year, and DW won in EVERY CATEGORY IT WAS NOMINATED IN -- both TV and film. OK, KFP beats WALL-E for Best Pic. But completely shuts it out?

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Post by GeorgeC » August 25th, 2010, 3:34 pm

That sounds very fishy, James.

That goes along with what I said about personality conflicts and politics.

I've never cared for award ceremonies. It's always a popularity contest IMHO. There are many people who never get awards who are more consistent workers and generally have better attitudes than many of the award winners.

As we've seen with the Oscars, there is very blatant politicking and baskets of goodies given at the top-tier award ceremonies. Granted, I don't think the Annies are giving away bottles of champagne and expensive perfumes and iPods, but the "student council" campaigns are going on... This is the type of stuff a lot of us hated in high school and hoped would go away in college but it's human behavior. Strong-arming and shmoozing is part of elections and award ceremonies whether we like it or not.

Generally, there is greater support for Pixar than DW in fan circles. Frankly, at this point in time they've both done stinkers. They both have their cliches, formulas, and ways of marketing that get to you after a while. I love and hate both of them equally now! :lol:

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Post by estefan » August 25th, 2010, 6:52 pm

Apparently, Tangled, Toy Story 3 and other Disney animated films will still be allowed to be nominated, despite the studio not submitting them.

Though, it is kind of funny that Disney are pulling out this year, considering that Up, Prep & Landing and The Princess and the Frog did very well at last year's Annie Awards.

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Post by eddievalient » August 25th, 2010, 7:51 pm

Toy Story 3 isn't Disney, it's Pixar. There's a difference. Never call a Pixar movie a Disney movie. That's an insult to Pixar. For quite some time now, Pixar has been doing their thing completely independantly and Disney has absolutely no say in what they do (would we ever have gotten Up if they did? I doubt it). All Disney does at this point is marketing and distribution and it burns me up to see Pixar movies mixed into their promo reels because they're taking credit for work they didn't do. All that said, I actually enjoyed Despicable Me a bit more than TS3 so I wouldn't be surprised if it won big at the annies whether Disney and Pixar's stuff is nominated or not.
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Post by estefan » August 25th, 2010, 9:06 pm

Don't John Lasseter and Ed Catmull run both Disney Animation and Pixar? I believe they both consider Pixar to be now apart of Disney.

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Post by eddievalient » August 25th, 2010, 9:42 pm

And the only reason that happened is because Disney offered them a $7 billion bribe to keep them from walking out the door. If someone offered me $7 billion, I wouldn't turn it down. Also note that Disney's product took a sharp upswing in quality when Lasseter took over after floundering for years, so I think my argument is still valid. Now, if only Lasseter would take over their TV division too, we might see an end to garbage like Hannah Montana and Wizards of Waverly place.
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Re: Disney/Pixar withdraws from Annie Awards

Post by droosan » August 26th, 2010, 2:28 am

eddievalient wrote:Never call a Pixar movie a Disney movie. That's an insult to Pixar.
Dude. :roll:

That was true, during their original picture deal (but even then, the studios shared some creative personnel).

But the two companies are full partners now. There may still be a 'line' between them, but it's razor-thin, and was blurred long ago.

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Post by GeorgeC » August 26th, 2010, 2:43 am

Droo is right.

Disney pays the bills, guys.

Pixar is a subsidiary of Disney, not the other way around.

Disney's paid MOST of the bills since Toy Story went into production.

Don't let fanboyism cloud the facts!

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