YouTube Goodness

[ShyViolet]

Pocahontas Honest Trailer:

Not sure if I agree with all of it, (I don’t see why they have to dump on 1995-2008 Dis for the thousandth time) but interesting nonetheless:

https://youtu.be/wyspEl3a4YA

*The Chapek jibe was funny tho.

[Ben]

Hey, no fair to include Tarzan in "a decade of garbage". Which also isn’t true.

Okay, so Pocahontas is now considered a misfire, and wasn’t always well-received even back on release, but I think the people at Disney were actually trying to do something noble and, dare I say, respectful, albeit given within the confines of that studio and Katzenberg’s then-wanting to push family animation to be bolder.

But this was right after B&TB, Aladdin and Lion King — dramatic, yes, but in a fun way — so we weren’t yet "conditioned" for this type of more po-faced and "worthy" film. I find Pocahontas, Hunchback and Prince Of Egypt to be an interesting "trilogy" all cut from part of the same cloth.

All all three topped out at around $100m grosses, which is also interesting, why I think DreamWorks went the way it did, and why a lot of what we get now is just CGI comedies. If nothing else, Pocahontas proved western family animation *could* tread new waters, albeit a little clumsily as a first attempt. But they can fix all that in the live-action remake…


Aaaaand…(one for Dacey!)…just what *is* a hontas, anyway!?

[ShyViolet]

Okay, so Pocahontas is now considered a misfire, and wasn’t always well-received even back on release, but I think the people at Disney were actually trying to do something noble and, dare I say, respectful, albeit given within the confines of that studio and Katzenberg’s then-wanting to push family animation to be bolder.

Yes, I agree. The thing I think the HT people missed is that Pocahontas lives with/appreciates nature but she doesn’t CONTROL nature like some unrealistic comic book superheroine…so many Native American stories/legends very strongly feature nature, the characters often having a mystical connection with it. I thought the movie conveyed this well. Also, as far as “ordinary, human” Native Americans being absent from the film, in my opinion the opening “Steady as the Beating Drum” sequence which showed families, old and young, women and children living their lives and interacting with each other, achieved this admirably. And Pocahontas was very much a rounded character in her sometimes reckless behavior (jumping off a very high waterfall/cliff, forming a relationship with John Smith, canoeing in rapid rivers) indicating that she is flawed and REAL.

[EricJ]

But this was right after B&TB, Aladdin and Lion King — dramatic, yes, but in a fun way — so we weren’t yet "conditioned" for this type of more po-faced and "worthy" film. I find Pocahontas, Hunchback and Prince Of Egypt to be an interesting "trilogy" all cut from part of the same cloth.

More specifically, it took three films for us to consider the heretofore unimaginable possibility that 90's Renaissance films could actually be, y'know, bad. Like, with corny villains, irritating comedy-reliefs, the same rotation of Menken songs, and piling on the third-act melodramas.
Those who worshipped Lion King (to show how much they loved Aladdin) were left with rather confused feelings about Pocahontas, and made a bold face of saying, okay, maybe Hunchback...wasn't...really...that good (shaddup, I was THERE, in that audience).

Which only adds to my theory that the reason we suddenly burst into murderous rages against Hercules was just a delayed reaction that was acting out.
Hercules became the unfortunate victim of everything we now realized we wanted to say about Hunchback, a year later, but barely deserved a bit of it.

[Randall]

Funny, I watched that HT just before reading Vi's post. The HT was funny, but I felt it misrepresented the film - which is fine, really, as it's entertainment, not journalism. However, I wouldn't want to have it as part of a movement to "re-evaluate" the 90s classics.

All those films were great (or at least good) in their own way. It's not their fault that the audience expected or wanted them to be what they weren't. Blame marketing, or blame simple minds, or just plain human nature.

Not to say that any were perfect. I can critique like anyone else. BATB is a masterpiece, but it's still flawed. I still find the anachronisms of Aladdin off-putting. And I was let down initially by the simplicity of Pocahontas, though largely because I was expecting it to be different than it was - but honestly, it's a gorgeous-looking film despite its awkward preachiness. I always thought Hunchback was a masterpiece, except for the "armpit noise" song, which I loathe. And Hercules was far jokier than I had expected. But watching each film over again, with the proper expectations, can actually be more rewarding - at least for me. Some things still grate (Tarzan's Rosie!), but that doesn't make it a "bad" film.

Looking at the "fan community": To go back now and criticize old films can come off as being "hipster petty" in my book. If one (I'm not addressing anyone specifically) had those opinions all along, then fair enough. And if one honestly has re-appraised a film, then fine, too. One can change one's mind. But I don't care for the notion of pooping on what we all loved initially just for the sake of trying to sound smart.

Chicken Little is still awful, though. No doubt about it.

[ShyViolet]

But I don't care for the notion of pooping on what we all loved initially just for the sake of trying to sound smart.

Chicken Little is still awful, though. No doubt about it.

Yes, that’s exactly how I feel about so many modern critiques. Well said!

On CL…yeah I guess it was quite flawed. But for some reason I can’t bring myself to completely hate it. The story was atrocious, but I actually do like the main character.

[ShyViolet]

In my opinion this was a really beautiful scene in Poca:

https://youtu.be/_dqHMbl9j3E

[Randall]

As I said, the Pocahontas film is really gorgeous to watch, no doubt.

Re: CL - Well, even a bad film can have its good points. I always do try to enjoy whatever film I'm watching and focus on the good stuff. But CL tested even my limits.

[Ben]

Chicken Little is important, though, for absolutely being a film of its time. We all know the stories behind it and the continuous upheavals throughout production, but all I know is that I had a blast watching it in a *massive* movie theatre back in the day. No, it’s not one I have revisited many times, and part of that is possibly clouded by the reputation over the memory, but historically you can pinprick that film as a representation of what was going on at the studio right then and there.

I donut know what Eric's going on about, as audiences don’t collectively think like that.

[GeffreyDrogon]

Dreamworks Animation's latest logo:



It's going to be seen on Puss in Boots: The Last Wish when it opens in theaters next month.

[droosan]

Once again, the internet comes through with the stuff this thread was made for.

[Ben]

Re DWA's new logo…kind of nice, but also kind of "shallow" in a way — "DreamWorks Animation: home to six franchises and not much else!" And it seems we are getting more Bad Guys, then?

On Andor: A Space Odyssey that felt pretty authentic, like I remember watching this in 1981-3 before it was cancelled! I know they were going for 1975, but it feels a little later than that, at least '79 if not a year or two later. But another one of those neat little "what if?s"!

[Randall]

DWA logo: Bad Guys? Really? It seems to me there were more successes to highlight than that! Yes, the nods to their films seemed rather sparse, though the idea is nice enough.

Andor: A nice mix of Space: 1999, Six Million Dollar Man-type narration, Doctor Who, Galactica, and other 70s elements.

[droosan]

Here's some highlights from that "Stand By For Action!" Gerry Anderson / Barry Gray tribute concert, performed earlier this year.

I didn't realize that the entire orchestra dressed up in costumes from the various Anderson shows! .. but one guy snuck in there dressed as Captain Chaos, from The Cannonball Run.

[Ben]

You mean… Captain USA…!!

F.A.B!