Animation is for adults also...

Post by **bawpcwpn** » September 20th, 2006, 9:46 pm

I get tired of hearing people I know when I mention that a new animated film comes out and how they say "Oh i'm not going to see that. it's just for little kids. Not my sort of thing"

I then desperately try to get them to realize that it will engage you and is not just for little kids and not to stereotype.

What are some of your arguments for the affirmative of Adults can enjoy animated films.

For one I think this entire site is complete proof that adults can enjoy animated films. Also there are soo many adult jokes in kids films these days, as to keep the adults eyes open as well as the kids.

Post by **ShyViolet** » September 20th, 2006, 9:54 pm

There must be thousands of things you can say, but one thing is:

Look at when Animation first became popular. (around 1903)
Gertie the Dinosour, Oswald, the Alice shorts, etc...I don't think people back then were like:

"Hmmm....this new animation thing. Moving drawings, eh. I guess the kids will like it."

I KINDA....doubt it.

I relate to knowing people who think this way though...I got to see Tarzan for free (in Manhattan) because I was working on a free Manhattan downtown newspaper and one of the editors was moaning that he had to review Tarzan. He was like: "Oh, I can't believe I have to go see a CARTOON!"
I told him I could go and review it instead--he was very greatful.

Post by **Josh** » September 20th, 2006, 11:14 pm

I did a college paper and presentation about this subject once. Thankfully, the crowd seemed to agree with me.

When trying to persuade people that animation is not only for kids, I usually describe the themes of the some of the best, more recent animated movies. For instance, two films I noted in my report were The Incredibles and The Iron Giant.

Code Horror · Post by **Code Horror** » September 21st, 2006, 12:52 am

That's what bothers me about animation, it's considered a kids thing but obviously people haven't the works by people like Ralph Bakshi or John Kricfalusi even Anime shows like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop even some of the most edited Anime are very adult like.

Post by **Ben** » September 21st, 2006, 10:44 am

Well, a "cartoon" doesn't have to include graphic sex or violence to be an "adult" animated film.

Watership Down and The Plague Dogs are two that come to mind that are exceptionally well told stories aimed at a mature audience, that just happen to be animated "cartoons".

Post by **Christian** » September 21st, 2006, 12:06 pm

The Lion King was said by one newspaper to be the most adult film of 1994.

Post by **ShyViolet** » September 21st, 2006, 3:53 pm

"The best film this year, period.

For adults. For kids."

--Michael Medved on "Beauty and the Beast", 1991

Post by **Kirby-chan** » December 29th, 2006, 5:11 pm

I agree with you completely, not all cartoons are for kids, but the fact that it's acartoon itself kinda shows that it's for families unless you look at it's tyle or rating. Cartoon's reputation was built up when the theaters in times like the 40's or 50's were for all ages and now most cartoons are kids shows unless you count shows like "American Dad" or "The Simpsons". But htat reputatio0n also gets the studios that make these cartoons in trouble, like when Walmart decided not to sell anime anymore cause the anime had "adult situations" and parents were lwtting their kids get it without looking at the ratings. Mabey if more cartoon movies were made that were directed at the more mature audiences, it would open more eyes... Then again, it could just get the studios in trouble cause the parents would let the 3 year olds see it just becuse it was a cartoon. *shrugs*

Post by **Mitch** » December 29th, 2006, 6:31 pm

bawpcwpn - Now here, I have to agree with you -- no, I definitely have to agree with you...

The fact that cartoons were started by none other than adults -- and animators, at that -- themselves clearly states the fact that 2-D and computer animated shows and films are not all solely for children. True, some films and shows are created just for kids, but others are created for adults as well. Just because a film is hand-drawn or computer animated doesn't mean that it is for kids only.

Take Pixar, for example. I have lived around animators all of my life, and I've come to learn that they truely do love their job. They crack jokes with their buds and create their own franchises out of cartoon characters that they created. The real geeks start their own fan clubs or produce their own films, whether 2-D or 3-D. On the second disc of the Monsters Inc. dvd, there is a door devoted to Pixar (in the "human section"), and within that door is a Pixar tour that you can take. I have to admit that I have watched it so much that I know every line of dialogue -- but the real fun comes from the tour itself. You can see, just from watching that, that these animators really do have alot of fun playing and experimenting with the things they create.

Someone once said that animators are just kids grown up. I whole-heartedly agree.

Post by **Kirby-chan** » December 29th, 2006, 6:58 pm

Mitch wrote:bawpcwpn - Now here, I have to agree with you -- no, I definitely have to agree with you...

The fact that cartoons were started by none other than adults -- and animators, at that -- themselves clearly states the fact that 2-D and computer animated shows and films are not all solely for children. True, some films and shows are created just for kids, but others are created for adults as well. Just because a film is hand-drawn or computer animated doesn't mean that it is for kids only.

Take Pixar, for example. I have lived around animators all of my life, and I've come to learn that they truely do love their job. They crack jokes with their buds and create their own franchises out of cartoon characters that they created. The real geeks start their own fan clubs or produce their own films, whether 2-D or 3-D. On the second disc of the Monsters Inc. dvd, there is a door devoted to Pixar (in the "human section"), and within that door is a Pixar tour that you can take. I have to admit that I have watched it so much that I know every line of dialogue -- but the real fun comes from the tour itself. You can see, just from watching that, that these animators really do have alot of fun playing and experimenting with the things they create.

Someone once said that animators are just kids grown up. I whole-heartedly agree.

*nods* good point!

Post by **Mitch** » December 30th, 2006, 12:58 am

Kirby-chan - Heh -- thanks.

Welcome to the boards, by the way!

Post by **lordcookie** » January 28th, 2007, 8:45 am

Ben wrote:Well, a "cartoon" doesn't have to include graphic sex or violence to be an "adult" animated film.

Watership Down and The Plague Dogs are two that come to mind that are exceptionally well told stories aimed at a mature audience, that just happen to be animated "cartoons".

I love Plague Dogs and it seems to be a film that has been forgotten over time. The examples you give are quite interesting as both are still family films (Plague Dogs is probably geared a bit more to adults) yet have adult themes. I think one of the most adult animations I have seen is When the Wind Blows, a film about a retired couple trying to survive after a nuclear attack.

I think one of the main reasons why animation is looked down on as 'kiddie entertainment' is that it often deals with the fantastical. Most times animation is used in the West to tell a story that could not be told via live action (unless it had a huge budget). Genres such as fantasy and science fiction are well catered for in animation but both genres are looked down upon by many as low-brow entertainment. With the exception of LotR's it is rare for films of either genre to be nominated for big awards or have a high critical reception. When you get older you are supposed to leave these fantasy worlds alone and watch serious dramas. It is sad that people will miss out on films such as Grave of the Fireflies and The Incredibles just because they are animated. Story should always be king be it in animation or live action.

If a friend ever says animation is just for kids I'll either show the Grave of the Fireflies so by the end they are blubbering wrecks, or I'll show them a film by The Brothers Quay or Jan Svankmajer both of which are so far from kid oriented its untrue.

Post by **Meg** » January 28th, 2007, 1:52 pm

Well said, Lord Cookie!

Television animation seems to be more accepted that it's not "just for kids" - it's too bad people can't apply the same thing to film animation.

Post by **Ben** » January 29th, 2007, 9:02 am

lordcookie wrote:The examples you give are quite interesting as both are still family films (Plague Dogs is probably geared a bit more to adults) yet have adult themes.

Agree with the rest of what you said, but Plague Dogs is in no way a "family film" and was never intended to be marketed as such. From day one, this was an adult story, aimed at adults, but created using the animation medium since CGI talking dogs weren't an option in 1981. Director Martin Rosen has stated that the only reason he made Watership Down and Plague Dogs in animation was that he didn't have any other choice.

Down is, by nature of the book, child-accessible, but if Plague Dogs had been made in live-action, there's no way it would have been seen as a "family film".

There's also the question of which cut you're referring to. The truncated US version loses almost 20 minutes of material in a futile attempt to make it a more "family film" solely based on the fact that it was animated and they believed they could go after that audience. The original, much more darker and adult cut, hasn't really been seen since apart from the release in Australia of Rosen's own print, sadly worn.

Plague Dogs is an intelligent animated film for adults, wrongly seen as a "family film" by those in charge of marketing a cut version of the film as such in order to make a quick buck.

More on Watership Down and The Plague Dogs.

Post by **lordcookie** » January 29th, 2007, 9:33 am

The last time I watched it was on DVD so it may well have been the US cut. I'm sure I have seen the other version to but it was so long ago I can't really remember if anything had been cut or not for the DVD release.