From AnimeNewsNetwork.com:
New Anime Digital Cable Channel (2005-09-29 23:12:49)
Funimation is launching the "Funimation Channel", the second 24-hr anime digital cable network in North America. The website for the channel will go live within a few weeks. OlympuSAT is the exclusive distributor and the FUNimation Channel is now available to video service providers throughout the United States.
Manga & Anime THREAD
Hmmphh..
Didn't ADV with their TAN (The Anime Network) prove there WASN'T a big enough anime fanbase in the U.S. to support even ONE anime channel?
Between them, both ADV and Funimation have a lot of popular anime.
ADV -- RahXephon, Robotech/Macross, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Elfen Lied, etc.
Funimation -- Dragonball/DBZ/DBGT, Fruits Basket, Lupin III movies, Full Metal Alchemist, etc.
However, the anime base in the U.S. is not that big. Maybe 250,000-500,000 "dedicated" fans tops, most of whom are teenagers and to whom anime is a passing fad?
You can't get TAN on regular cable. You have to pay extra for digital THEN SUBSCRIBE to get TAN. It'll be the same for Funimation's new channel! How many parents want to pay for this so that their kid can watch one lousy show? I sometimes have problem justifying to myself the cost of REGULAR CABLE (~50 channels) since there are only about a half-dozen channels I really caree for.
The TAN strategy has worked "so well" that it's helped nearly bankrupt ADV (if rumors are to be believed) and resulted in ADV licensing its crown-jewel shows to OTHER networks (G4, Cartoon Network) to keep afloat!
The only channel that's really been successful with anime has been Cartoon Network BUT that's only been with 4, perhaps 6 anime series tops! The breakout anime have been Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z, and Naruto. (I don't count the card-collecting crap like Yugi-Oh or Pokemon. Please, can we forget those god-awful shows?) Gundam was successful for about 10 seconds on Cartoon Network but has become largely irrelevant in the U.S. Same to an extent for Rurouni Kenshin.
Anime is very faddish now excepting a core group of people (maybe around 35,000-50,000 tops per month?) who regularly buy this stuff. Those numbers are not big enough to support another network considering the failure of the first!
Didn't ADV with their TAN (The Anime Network) prove there WASN'T a big enough anime fanbase in the U.S. to support even ONE anime channel?
Between them, both ADV and Funimation have a lot of popular anime.
ADV -- RahXephon, Robotech/Macross, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Elfen Lied, etc.
Funimation -- Dragonball/DBZ/DBGT, Fruits Basket, Lupin III movies, Full Metal Alchemist, etc.
However, the anime base in the U.S. is not that big. Maybe 250,000-500,000 "dedicated" fans tops, most of whom are teenagers and to whom anime is a passing fad?
You can't get TAN on regular cable. You have to pay extra for digital THEN SUBSCRIBE to get TAN. It'll be the same for Funimation's new channel! How many parents want to pay for this so that their kid can watch one lousy show? I sometimes have problem justifying to myself the cost of REGULAR CABLE (~50 channels) since there are only about a half-dozen channels I really caree for.
The TAN strategy has worked "so well" that it's helped nearly bankrupt ADV (if rumors are to be believed) and resulted in ADV licensing its crown-jewel shows to OTHER networks (G4, Cartoon Network) to keep afloat!
The only channel that's really been successful with anime has been Cartoon Network BUT that's only been with 4, perhaps 6 anime series tops! The breakout anime have been Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z, and Naruto. (I don't count the card-collecting crap like Yugi-Oh or Pokemon. Please, can we forget those god-awful shows?) Gundam was successful for about 10 seconds on Cartoon Network but has become largely irrelevant in the U.S. Same to an extent for Rurouni Kenshin.
Anime is very faddish now excepting a core group of people (maybe around 35,000-50,000 tops per month?) who regularly buy this stuff. Those numbers are not big enough to support another network considering the failure of the first!
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MORE Anime? Like Cartoon Network doesn't show enough of it.... 
BTW I don't care if Kimba: The White Lion WAS the original source of inspiration for Lion King. I've seen pictures of it and it looks awful to me, really ugly. IMO the producers should be greatful to Disney for actually making their film known apart from the five people who actually heard of it.
BTW I don't care if Kimba: The White Lion WAS the original source of inspiration for Lion King. I've seen pictures of it and it looks awful to me, really ugly. IMO the producers should be greatful to Disney for actually making their film known apart from the five people who actually heard of it.
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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Hear Hear! Being a huge TLK fanatic, I'm totally sick of this Kimba/Simba thing always popping up.ShyViolet wrote:MORE Anime? Like Cartoon Network doesn't show enough of it....
BTW I don't care if Kimba: The White Lion WAS the original source of inspiration for Lion King. I've seen pictures of it and it looks awful to me, really ugly. IMO the producers should be greatful to Disney for actually making their film known apart from the five people who actually heard of it.
Uh, gentleladies,
There's a problem with what you've both said.
The Lion King was DEFINITELY inspired by the 1960s anime Kimba the White Lion/Leo the Lion King/Jungle King and NOT the other way around.
The problem is the attitude of Disney towards the obvious resemblances of Lion King and Kimba. They won't acknowledge wholesale borrowing of characters and themes from the 1960s anime.
This site is VERY informative on the similarities right down to wholesale cribbing/borrowing of visual ideas from Kimba -- http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm
The controversy will NOT go away because of the Disney management.
The Japanese company (Mushi Productions) that produced Kimba never wanted to sue Disney Productions because its founder, Osamu Tezuka, was a big fan of Disney and was inspired by Walt Disney's work. All they asked for was some kind of acknowledgement to the works and inspiration of Osamu Tezuka's character Kimba on The Lion King.
If Kimba is such a horrible anime to begin with, why the wholesale borrowing -- if not outright theft -- of all its ideas and character types by The Lion King?
The most telling thing about this is that Matthew Broderick thought Disney was remaking Kimba after he got the role of Simba! (And don't tell me that Simba DOESN'T sound an awful lot like Kimba, either!) Broderick grew up with the Kimba TV series in the 1960s and was familiar with it. There were undoubtedly other people working on the film his age or older who were familiar with the series, too.
There's no question the animation in The Lion King is better than Kimba's, but the themes developed in the 1960s anime TV series and its manga predecessor obviously still played very well 30 years later! Criticize Kimba's animation and character design style all you want, but similarites go a LOT deeper than just skin level... Disney really owes a lot of the success of its most successful 1990s feature to the pioneering work of Japan's greatest TV anime creator, Osamu Tezuka. The fact that the current company officers are so petty about this reality says a lot about their morality.
There's a problem with what you've both said.
The Lion King was DEFINITELY inspired by the 1960s anime Kimba the White Lion/Leo the Lion King/Jungle King and NOT the other way around.
The problem is the attitude of Disney towards the obvious resemblances of Lion King and Kimba. They won't acknowledge wholesale borrowing of characters and themes from the 1960s anime.
This site is VERY informative on the similarities right down to wholesale cribbing/borrowing of visual ideas from Kimba -- http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm
The controversy will NOT go away because of the Disney management.
The Japanese company (Mushi Productions) that produced Kimba never wanted to sue Disney Productions because its founder, Osamu Tezuka, was a big fan of Disney and was inspired by Walt Disney's work. All they asked for was some kind of acknowledgement to the works and inspiration of Osamu Tezuka's character Kimba on The Lion King.
If Kimba is such a horrible anime to begin with, why the wholesale borrowing -- if not outright theft -- of all its ideas and character types by The Lion King?
The most telling thing about this is that Matthew Broderick thought Disney was remaking Kimba after he got the role of Simba! (And don't tell me that Simba DOESN'T sound an awful lot like Kimba, either!) Broderick grew up with the Kimba TV series in the 1960s and was familiar with it. There were undoubtedly other people working on the film his age or older who were familiar with the series, too.
There's no question the animation in The Lion King is better than Kimba's, but the themes developed in the 1960s anime TV series and its manga predecessor obviously still played very well 30 years later! Criticize Kimba's animation and character design style all you want, but similarites go a LOT deeper than just skin level... Disney really owes a lot of the success of its most successful 1990s feature to the pioneering work of Japan's greatest TV anime creator, Osamu Tezuka. The fact that the current company officers are so petty about this reality says a lot about their morality.
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I tried to watch Kimba once, but I dozed off a few minutes into it.GeorgeC wrote:(And don't tell me that Simba DOESN'T sound an awful lot like Kimba, either!)
Just to clarify, I know there are a lot of similarities that I won't try to explain. But the main character's name can be explained. "Simba" is the Swahili word for "lion", and in Japan they pronounce it "Kimba." In this instance its not a case of Disney copying the anime, but rather both using the same source.
As for all the other similarities... yeah, Disney probably copied them.
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That makes sense.
Also, I don't know, but I doubt all that "I think I killed my father" super-psychological REALLY REALLY DEEP (not being sarcastic!) stuff in the Lion King appeared in Kimba, at least in remotely equal measure.
Facing up to your past, your demons, repressed memories, little kid thinking everything is his fault, abusive guardian Scar stuff--did they REALLY put that all in Kimba? I have to say I doubt it.
I mean the way the modern Disney films, the really great ones from 1988-1994, were wonderful because they didn't just TELL, they SHOWED. You SEE Simba developing into a mature adult, you SEE Belle making the choice to come back to the Beast, you SEE Aladdin dealing with his guilt over not freeing Genie.
Belle doesn't have to say: "I realized the right thing was to come back to you, Beast. You mean so much to me." That would totally kill the movie. Instead the Beast says: ""You came back!" and Belle says: "I had to." That's all. We know Belle loves the Beast because of how she acts and what she does, not because she makes a long long speech about what she thinks and what she's done. On the other hand, that's the kind of thing you almost ALWAYS see in Anime. There's no psychological depth to a lot of the stories because like a soap-opera the characters go on and on and on about blah blah blah my father my past I am a warrior whatever whatever. It's very inferior storytelling.
So even if LK did crib a few visual/story ideas from Kimba, so what? Disney can put: "Inspired by Kimba the White Lion" or something on their DVDs. Definetely not based on. In animation ideas are borrowed all the time--look at The Real Ghostbusters and the Filmation GB. All they did was change the name--presto. No lawsuit. No one made a big issue then. (even though it was clear what the better series was.)
BTW, I still think that Kimba art is absolutely awful!
Also, I don't know, but I doubt all that "I think I killed my father" super-psychological REALLY REALLY DEEP (not being sarcastic!) stuff in the Lion King appeared in Kimba, at least in remotely equal measure.
Facing up to your past, your demons, repressed memories, little kid thinking everything is his fault, abusive guardian Scar stuff--did they REALLY put that all in Kimba? I have to say I doubt it.
I mean the way the modern Disney films, the really great ones from 1988-1994, were wonderful because they didn't just TELL, they SHOWED. You SEE Simba developing into a mature adult, you SEE Belle making the choice to come back to the Beast, you SEE Aladdin dealing with his guilt over not freeing Genie.
Belle doesn't have to say: "I realized the right thing was to come back to you, Beast. You mean so much to me." That would totally kill the movie. Instead the Beast says: ""You came back!" and Belle says: "I had to." That's all. We know Belle loves the Beast because of how she acts and what she does, not because she makes a long long speech about what she thinks and what she's done. On the other hand, that's the kind of thing you almost ALWAYS see in Anime. There's no psychological depth to a lot of the stories because like a soap-opera the characters go on and on and on about blah blah blah my father my past I am a warrior whatever whatever. It's very inferior storytelling.
So even if LK did crib a few visual/story ideas from Kimba, so what? Disney can put: "Inspired by Kimba the White Lion" or something on their DVDs. Definetely not based on. In animation ideas are borrowed all the time--look at The Real Ghostbusters and the Filmation GB. All they did was change the name--presto. No lawsuit. No one made a big issue then. (even though it was clear what the better series was.)
BTW, I still think that Kimba art is absolutely awful!
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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I do concede that it's possible--even probable--that at one point Disney THOUGHT they had the rights to this story and then they didn't. There was obviously a screw-up on somebody's part. But maybe if they admitted it it might cause a HUGE gaffe/economic loss on the part of the company, millions or maybe billions of dollars in compensation. That could cost even MORE jobs and cuts....you can't take blood from a stone. The same thing might have happened in 1993 if Disney DID cancel the Lion King mid production even after spending so much on it. Where would the company be now? Probably a ton of people would have to have been fired to make up for the money spent. Lion King's proceeds brought in a HUGE amount of profit for Disney, (they still are) and it might not be what it is today if not for this film. Think about it.
I think it's unfortunate that this happened, but there's no way I think you can equate Simba with Kimba on a creative level....the Lion King set a precedent for psychological depth and visual magnificence, and NO TV show could ever hope to equal that.
I think the reason that not much is known about this is A.) the Disney company doesn't want it to get out and B.) Anything that happened during the Katzenberg era is never gotten into too much depth anywhere, in any article OR book, since Disney erased so much information about that time.
I do feel that at some point Disney should acknowledge that they were inspired by Tezuka's show, (Just like they should acknowledge that Jeffrey Katzenberg actually existed) but like I said people should be prepared for the consequences.
(And I don't think the Tezuka issue is on the same level as the Katzenberg issue.)
I think it's unfortunate that this happened, but there's no way I think you can equate Simba with Kimba on a creative level....the Lion King set a precedent for psychological depth and visual magnificence, and NO TV show could ever hope to equal that.
I think the reason that not much is known about this is A.) the Disney company doesn't want it to get out and B.) Anything that happened during the Katzenberg era is never gotten into too much depth anywhere, in any article OR book, since Disney erased so much information about that time.
I do feel that at some point Disney should acknowledge that they were inspired by Tezuka's show, (Just like they should acknowledge that Jeffrey Katzenberg actually existed) but like I said people should be prepared for the consequences.
(And I don't think the Tezuka issue is on the same level as the Katzenberg issue.)
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
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yarr
[quote="ShyViolet"] Belle doesn't have to say: "I realized the right thing was to come back to you, Beast. You mean so much to me." That would totally kill the movie. Instead the Beast says: ""You came back!" and Belle says: "I had to." That's all. We know Belle loves the Beast because of how she acts and what she does, not because she makes a long long speech about what she thinks and what she's done. On the other hand, that's the kind of thing you almost ALWAYS see in Anime. There's no psychological depth to a lot of the stories because like a soap-opera the characters go on and on and on about blah blah blah my father my past I am a warrior whatever whatever. It's very inferior storytelling.
[/quote]
ShyViolet, you have to realize that the comment you're making is broadly generalized. How many animes have you watched? Aside from Miyazaki's. I agree with you that more often than not, they do divulge in "deep speech" mode. For instance Yu Gi Oh, Dragon Ball, and so on and so forth.
However, among all these, there are anime gems with good storytelling as superior as the "feature animation" standard of storytelling. I'm sureyou haven't even bothered to look at some other titles they didn't air on North American TV.
Frankly, the North American anime stuff on TV are TOTAL CRAP. But being anime, doesn't mean these animated movies are crap!
For instance, have you seen Cowboy Bebop?Or maybe have you even bothered to watch Azumanga Daioh? Spare some of your time for Full Metal Panic :Fumoffu? Or maybe try watching Perfect Blue ? Rented Tokyo Godfathers?
These series I mentioned are their own film on it's own right. Cowboy Bebop is an awesome adventure series. Azumanga Daioh is somewhat like the better sitcoms on TV, like Friends --except it's set in highschool. Full Metal Panic :Fumoffu is like a weird amalgam of action adventure, parody, comedy, romance and high school life. Perfect Blue is an awesome thriller, while Tokyo Godfathers is a really good comedy.
BTW, touching on the drawing style of anime, Ihate their clean-up style. I worked with them this summer. It was horrifying.
[/quote]
ShyViolet, you have to realize that the comment you're making is broadly generalized. How many animes have you watched? Aside from Miyazaki's. I agree with you that more often than not, they do divulge in "deep speech" mode. For instance Yu Gi Oh, Dragon Ball, and so on and so forth.
However, among all these, there are anime gems with good storytelling as superior as the "feature animation" standard of storytelling. I'm sureyou haven't even bothered to look at some other titles they didn't air on North American TV.
Frankly, the North American anime stuff on TV are TOTAL CRAP. But being anime, doesn't mean these animated movies are crap!
For instance, have you seen Cowboy Bebop?Or maybe have you even bothered to watch Azumanga Daioh? Spare some of your time for Full Metal Panic :Fumoffu? Or maybe try watching Perfect Blue ? Rented Tokyo Godfathers?
These series I mentioned are their own film on it's own right. Cowboy Bebop is an awesome adventure series. Azumanga Daioh is somewhat like the better sitcoms on TV, like Friends --except it's set in highschool. Full Metal Panic :Fumoffu is like a weird amalgam of action adventure, parody, comedy, romance and high school life. Perfect Blue is an awesome thriller, while Tokyo Godfathers is a really good comedy.
BTW, touching on the drawing style of anime, Ihate their clean-up style. I worked with them this summer. It was horrifying.
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I get your point. I'll try to keep an open mind. 
I did love The Little Bits and Maya the Bee when I was young (like I said in an earlier post they were dubbed in Hebrew not English) so I guess some Anime isn't so bad.
I think what does a lot of Anime in is the terrible American dubbing a lot of them receive. Is it me or does it sound like they use the same three actors for EVERYTHING??
I also liked Akira and Roujin Z.
I did love The Little Bits and Maya the Bee when I was young (like I said in an earlier post they were dubbed in Hebrew not English) so I guess some Anime isn't so bad.
I think what does a lot of Anime in is the terrible American dubbing a lot of them receive. Is it me or does it sound like they use the same three actors for EVERYTHING??
I also liked Akira and Roujin Z.
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
TCM confirms airings of Miyazaki films in near-future...
And now, for a break from the Tarzan ranting and the Chicken Little snippets and nuggets... (Sorry, couldn't resist. 
)
This is 2-day-old news. It's been reported on a few anime sites before and now on ToonZone.net as of today...
http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=6388
TCM is airing several Ghibli films starting in January. These include MOST of the R1-released Miyazaki films plus other films Ghibli films not directed by Miyazaki.
As the article states, nine films are scheduled to air...
Furthermore, I'll just quote what it says,
"------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toon Zone has independent confirmation that Turner Classic Movies plans to air nine animated features from Studio Ghibli in January 2006.
UPDATE: According to the official TCM Web site, the film series will include a variety of Ghibli films, including the currently unreleased Whisper of the Heart and Isao Takahata's Only Yesterday, which Disney had previously suggested was on indefinite hold and would not be dubbed. For the latter title, TCM lists only the Japanese voice cast, suggesting that the film may air in Japanese with subtitles, though the network has not given a definite answer on this point.
Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke will both air twice on the evening of Jan. 5, 2006. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind and Castle in the Sky will air at the same times one week later, on Jan. 12. My Neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso and Whisper of the Heart are set to air Thursday, Jan. 19. Finally, the Takahata films Pom Poko and Only Yesterday will air Jan. 26."
It's all very, very interesting. Hopefully, Only Yesterday WILL get some kind of DVD release in R1 even if it's only subtitled. It'd be a shame to hold up one Ghibli title and NOT release it in the States because Disney thinks it won't sell or can't be properly dubbed. Just release the darn thing already, Mr. Mouse, and let the fans have what they want!
I don't think the airings on TCM indicate Anime in general is mainstream -- it's just that they're acknowledging Miyazaki's pre-eminence now as an acknowledged animation director and probably looking to bolster their animation showings without having to license Disney animated films (which will never happen in a million years on a WB network).
I guess all you guys out there that still don't have the Ghibli films on DVD better get your VCRs and DVD recorders ready for the TCM showings in January! (Don't feel bad -- I still don't have My Neighbors the Yamadas or Pom Poko on DVD, either.) Hopefully, the films will be shown uncut, in the right aspect ratio, and without commercial interruptions. That certainly no longer happens on either AMC OR Disney Channel.
Please note that the current schedule for the Ghibli TCM airings is still tentative. It could change at the last moment.
)This is 2-day-old news. It's been reported on a few anime sites before and now on ToonZone.net as of today...
http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=6388
TCM is airing several Ghibli films starting in January. These include MOST of the R1-released Miyazaki films plus other films Ghibli films not directed by Miyazaki.
As the article states, nine films are scheduled to air...
Furthermore, I'll just quote what it says,
"------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toon Zone has independent confirmation that Turner Classic Movies plans to air nine animated features from Studio Ghibli in January 2006.
UPDATE: According to the official TCM Web site, the film series will include a variety of Ghibli films, including the currently unreleased Whisper of the Heart and Isao Takahata's Only Yesterday, which Disney had previously suggested was on indefinite hold and would not be dubbed. For the latter title, TCM lists only the Japanese voice cast, suggesting that the film may air in Japanese with subtitles, though the network has not given a definite answer on this point.
Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke will both air twice on the evening of Jan. 5, 2006. Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind and Castle in the Sky will air at the same times one week later, on Jan. 12. My Neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso and Whisper of the Heart are set to air Thursday, Jan. 19. Finally, the Takahata films Pom Poko and Only Yesterday will air Jan. 26."
It's all very, very interesting. Hopefully, Only Yesterday WILL get some kind of DVD release in R1 even if it's only subtitled. It'd be a shame to hold up one Ghibli title and NOT release it in the States because Disney thinks it won't sell or can't be properly dubbed. Just release the darn thing already, Mr. Mouse, and let the fans have what they want!
I don't think the airings on TCM indicate Anime in general is mainstream -- it's just that they're acknowledging Miyazaki's pre-eminence now as an acknowledged animation director and probably looking to bolster their animation showings without having to license Disney animated films (which will never happen in a million years on a WB network).
I guess all you guys out there that still don't have the Ghibli films on DVD better get your VCRs and DVD recorders ready for the TCM showings in January! (Don't feel bad -- I still don't have My Neighbors the Yamadas or Pom Poko on DVD, either.) Hopefully, the films will be shown uncut, in the right aspect ratio, and without commercial interruptions. That certainly no longer happens on either AMC OR Disney Channel.
Please note that the current schedule for the Ghibli TCM airings is still tentative. It could change at the last moment.