Sequels, sequels, sequels! Disney DOESN'T learn!

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Sequels, sequels, sequels! Disney DOESN'T learn!

Post by GeorgeC » March 5th, 2008, 11:05 pm

As someone who is NOT a member of the AN & V cast, I can honestly say that the newsrush about sequels to everything Disney and Pixar under the sun disgusts me.

(Note: This is not a slam on the generally excellent presentations made by AN & V staffers. Let's face it, they HAVE to be tactful and careful covering Disney because that's how they keep their news source connections to the Company. They have criticized past DVD releases as being bare, deficient in video quality, and not worth upgrading to, but that's not the same as criticizing the overall management of the company and the seeming herd mentality of fans that continue to buy Di$ney product that's typical crap.)

There's no reason to call this company Walt Disney Productions, let alone Disney ANYTHING, anymore. It certainly hasn't been "good old Disney" since late 1966, and even more obviously since the mid-1990s.

It should be called NuDizney or Di$ney because it tries be hip, cheerful, and glib at the expense of its heritage under its founders (Walt and Roy) while being neither illuminating or memorable anymore. It's a New Age "feel good" company and frankly another Hollywood crankhouse in the worst and most cynical sense of those terms. It's become everything it DIDN'T used to be.

They just don't try to do anything that doesn't appeal to the tween-set or the sentimental shlobs that haven't learned that just because they slap a Disney label on a film or TV show doesn't mean it's a good product or even an ATTEMPT to rise above the usual level of entertainment mediocrity. It's all generic, politically-correct crap that LOWERS the intelligence of anybody that watches it for more than a few minutes.

These shows are NOT memorable and will be forgotten long before the current crop of "Hannah Montana"" fans outgrow her or watch her devolve into the next Britney/Madonna wanna-be.

You guys that buy all these lousy sequels and talk about Princess films ad nauseaum can have it. The current Di$ney powers-that-be have listened TO YOU and this business of a change in management and attitude has all been a colossal joke. There has been no real sign of an upswing in animation at Di$ney beyond the cranking out of all these unnecessary Pixar CGI sequels with (generally) the same people who worked on the original films. The "traditional animation" video product, as usual, is being produced overseas mainly in sweatshops that regularly spit out anime TV episodes.

I will buy re-releases of CLASSIC Disney films (anything made under Walt or passably in the spirit of the best Disney films, ie made before 1994) but count me out on the new junk being produced. In fact, if I ever get married and have children, I'll definitely block Di$ney Channel and ABC Family from the cable box.

I really don't want film versions of "Dick and Jane" in my household.

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Post by bawpcwpn » March 6th, 2008, 1:07 am

I agree with you on many points, I really do. I can't see sense in it at all. And now Pixar considering a Cars 2? What's with that?!

I do understand though that the big wigs are just out to please the shareholders and keep the business running in these times of trouble with the economy and stock market etc. Sequels seem to be a safe way around it as they are sure to make money if the previous ones were successful.

But I think they need to put more effort into original films and marketing them well. If they consistently make good films, (not sequels/prequels etc), people will soon realize that Disney is a brand to be trusted again and B.O. numbers should go up. Take a look at Pixar. They are story, story, story, so they make good films, and people respond well to them. Word of mouth is a powerful, powerful tool that marketers should make more use of.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Sequels, sequels, sequels! Disney DOESN'T learn!

Post by Otis8 » March 6th, 2008, 2:37 am

Um am I the only one who feels offended by the first post? :? it took me awhile to find what the heck was being discussed since their wasn't a link (finally saw the news on the front page) and George didn't even post the actual titles, he just went on a endless rant. I have only been a member for a little while, but jeez what DON'T you hate? You really sounds like you have chip on your shoulder.

I don't even know why disney teen shows were even mention, was that one of the films announced?. I don't even think the shows are that bad. I don't like them, but I am not stating whoever does will lower their intellegience. Personal attack me thinks. In comparison with other shows on tv, disneys are clean and don't hurt anyone.


Back on what I think is the topic I'm exited for Cars 2, and National Treasure 3!

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Post by Ben » March 6th, 2008, 8:34 am

Gotta say, George, that this rant seemed to come outta nowhere!

I wouldn't call our story a "newsrush" - we got a report in and I decided it was right for the front page. Pirates has often been mentioned due to the classic connections, and of course Cars is pure animation. I'd argue for Tron, too, not only as it's a personal favorite, daringly experimental, but it was the catalyst to getting a lot of these animators into the business in the first place!

Personally, I could take or leave another National Treasure (still haven't seen the second), but since it was announced in the same list, it would probably more noticeable by its conspicuous omission. Anyway, the second film was the only way to see the new Goofy cartoon, so there's a link there and in all likelihood NT3 will bundle another short on the front too.

=====================

Although you stated this wasn't a slam at us, it kinda felt that way, suggesting that we're not able to go out on a limb and say what we think.

Well...first things first...Animated NEWS is supposed to be impartial. It's a news service. Objectivity is the name of the game. I'm continually reading the items that go up and looking for anything that could be taken as being biased for or against a company or individual. We're not there to pass judgement - just to say "hey, this is happening". If Disney want to put out Pirates 5 and 6, that's what they want to do, and our readership makes it very clear that they want to know that stuff. Doesn't mean we agree or disagree with it, at least on the front page.

This is why we have the FORUMS. It's where you - and us - can have our say. It's why we link to the forums when and where we can, and all the time at the bottom of most Animated Views content. As long as there is no bad language or other hot topics, we're all free to say what we feel on the boards. Again, it doesn't mean that our Moderators agree, but it's impartial (otherwise, wouldn't we have deleted your message above?).

This is also why we came up with Animated VIEWS: "review, commentary and opinion" as our header says. While I'd love to jump on the soapbox more often, it's basically down to time constraints. A lot of that is taken up with reviews, in which we're fair and honest. If a new Platinum doesn't hit the mark, we'll say so. We're not going to pull punches in case Disney halts our screeners coming along. I've also spoken about the way content is held back from DVD releases to make Blu-Ray more attractive, and I've said a few things about John Lasseter and the way Disney is being run. I also think it's still too early days to make solid judgements. We're still not really seeing the fruits of Lasseter's (or Iger's, for that matter) work, but it's starting to trickle through.

And as for the quality...well that's down to personal opinion. We're living in a much more commercial age now in which there are many trade offs. If financing a High School Musical or Hannah Montana means Disney can take a hit at the box office if Princess And The Frog flops, then I'm all for it. And at the end of the day I'm not the audience for that stuff but it's sure cleaning up and popular with who it is aimed at. I actually quite enjoyed HSM once I got around the "stigma" of it being a commercial effort. One must also remember that there was a LOT of crud being churned out through Disney TV in the 1970s and 80s too, though I am just as "guilty" as looking at this stuff through tinted specs and remembering it much more fondly that I perhaps should!

At the end of the day, Disney is a commercial company and it needs to stay afloat. I don't think Iger has yet done a big turn around on what it's churning out but it's all of a certain level of quality and, obviously, these things are going out there and finding their fans. I'd be just as willing to rant about some of these things if they really bothered me, but art and commerce must co-exist in this day and age, and Disney usually at least does it with an eye on it's legacy.

So relax and take a chill pill, man! :)

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Re: Sequels, sequels, sequels! Disney DOESN'T learn!

Post by EricJ » March 6th, 2008, 4:25 pm

Otis8 wrote:Um am I the only one who feels offended by the first post? :?
Not if we've learned to expect it from a GeorgeC post.
(And Ben picks on ME for being "knee-jerk" and "vanity-troll struck"...) :roll:

Think Disney was feeling their oats in announcing them all at once, but they all have individual origins:
National Treasure 2 was surprised it did as well at the B.O. as the first one (call it one of Disney's "Sally Field sequels"--You like us, you really like us! :P )..
But as for Cars 2, John Lasseter never likes to do Pixar sequels unless there's a good cause: May have started out as another Toy Story 2-style video upgrade, and got the studio backing after Disney wanted to get hyper-defensive about the press dogpiling on the Oscar-nominated "flop" that didn't make as much money as Nemo.

As for Pirates 4, they like to announce it more than they like to make it. (Or, in 3's case, more than most of us actually want to SEE it--I actually didn't have time to catch #3 in theaters before it vanished, caught it on Blu, and...okay, so it was a mess):
Two of the main characters have already been written out of the story, and Gore Verbinski has already grumbled that he's not looking forward to doing another rainy-island shoot for six months if he doesn't have to...
And Disney's only impetus for making it in the first place was as a corporate move to justify the "Pirates Island" attempt on Disneyland--which they eventually compromised and went ahead and built anyway--loophole-justified by ONE throwaway "Fountain of Youth" line in the third movie, and a "New Orleans" plot to tie it into Disneyland.
Still, having nobody left for the last sequel except for one too-loyal franchise actor never stopped them from making "Santa Clause 3'...

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Post by James » March 6th, 2008, 4:40 pm

I think everyone at AN&V has come out at some point in these forums or elsewhere against "cheap-quels" and the overabundance of "franchising". That doesn't mean we can just not report about them when they come up in the news!

A long time ago when we brought on our first batch of new people, I was giving them some advice about writing stories. One thing I told them not to do, that you seem to imply we should be doing, is to not let their bias or preferences color their reporting. The example I gave them was that I hated the film Shrek. But that did not stop me from writing stories when the film was in the news.

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Post by Ben » March 6th, 2008, 5:31 pm

EricJ - I don't think I've ever used the words "knee-jerk" or "vanity-troll struck"...I just wish you'd think about posting before you come crashing down with some not always solid historical background, or at least <I>read</I> what others are saying.

And then you go on with the usual stream of consciousness that contains as many holes as it does opinions!

Cars 2 is being made for no other reason than that it's Lasseter's own franchise. He's handed Toy Story off, Bird has no interest in doing another Incredibles, and this seems to be the only other property that he can directly control. My guess is that he won't even be the sole director here.

Pirates 4 is being made for no other reason than that 2 and 3 made obscene amounts of money. And they wouldn't have announced it unless they had the elements in place. You can bet that Verbinski and Depp are signed, subject to the script, and that they will now have creative input on that. If the plot goes the way it's been rumored, they won't have to worry about rainy islands, but it will happen.


And, wow - James hates Shrek? Who knew!? That's news in itself! ;)

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Post by EricJ » March 6th, 2008, 6:20 pm

Ben wrote:Pirates 4 is being made for no other reason than that 2 and 3 made obscene amounts of money. And they wouldn't have announced it unless they had the elements in place. You can bet that Verbinski and Depp are signed, subject to the script, and that they will now have creative input on that. If the plot goes the way it's been rumored, they won't have to worry about rainy islands, but it will happen.
...What's the "way it's been rumored"? Something new happened?

(Since, at the risk of invoking Jim Hill "articles", I was still on the "Fountain of Youth in New Orleans" rumor tied in with the Disneyland Tom Sawyer-rehab fan-complaints--
#4 may or may not have started out ascoldly mercenary theme-park Public Relations, but, like "Pocahontas" and Disney America, ulterior artistic motives may have shifted back and forth during pre-production...
And wait, how can the characters be "going on an errand for Tia Dalma", unquote, if Tia disappeared at the end of Pirates 3?? :? )

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Post by Ben » March 7th, 2008, 6:43 am

Tia left a note in the case of her disappearance? And since she's not "dead" anyway, it's been proven that Pirates characters can come back from the hereafter...

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Post by PatrickvD » March 11th, 2008, 6:48 pm

excuse me but the economics of movie making have changed. This has absolutely nothing to do with the "old Disney" or the "new Disney"

sequels drive Hollywood. There would be no Hollywood without them anymore.

And I seriously prefer a line up of Pirates 4, National Treasure 3, Cars 2 and Tron 2 than.....

a DTV line up of Cinderella 4, Bambi 3, Little Mermaid 4, Black Cauldron 2, Snow White 2, Aladdin 4.

Can we focus on the fact that Disney is returning to traditional animation? Isn't that a sign of great things to come? If you despise the sequels so much you can choose to ignore them. It's not like they're nutchering classics anymore, so I don't see the big deal here, really.

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Post by Kinoo » March 11th, 2008, 7:03 pm

It's not sequels we despised under Eisner era, it was CHEAPquels. If the follow-ups to Disney classics were as good as the original ones, nobody would have complain. But when we look at the mess that were Aladdin2&3, Hunchback2, Pocahontas2, Santa Clause2&3, Mulan2 etc.. etc... no one (except OUAD maybe) can honestly say that they were good.

Now, let's see if those 2011 sequels are good and then we will be able to judge. I'm personnaly looking forward to Pirates 4 (Jack Sparrow is one of the greatest Hollywood characters ever created in the last decade, can't get enough of him), National Treasure 3 (even if the second one was lame, there is a lot of potential to this franchise = what the Da Vinci Code movie should have been) and Tron2.

A Cars sequel is unnecessaray (and not yet confirmed anyway), but extending the franchise with short movies could be a great idea.
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Post by EricJ » March 11th, 2008, 10:27 pm

And besides, we only got the news item because it was the Stockholders' Meeting this week--

(...Sheesh, you coulda TOLD us that at the beginning, and we could've ignored it like any other self-delusional Stockholders' Meeting pie-in-the-skyfests!) :roll:

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Post by Dacey » March 13th, 2008, 11:19 am

Ben wrote:Tia left a note in the case of her disappearance? And since she's not "dead" anyway, it's been proven that Pirates characters can come back from the hereafter...
Exactly.

I'm all for Pirates IV, V, VI, as many as they want to make. But they need more cast members to return than just Depp...
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Post by Once Upon A Dream » March 14th, 2008, 12:48 pm

Well,for the cheapquels-Ariel's Beginning will be the last one,so we"ll just have things like the TinkerBell or Enchanted Tales who are actually good :D thought Cinderella III was great and i think Ariel's Beginning will be too :D.
Cars sequel-I think it's just a marketing thing,did you noticed how much merchandise Cars is getting?.
Pirates Of The Caribbean 4-Well,At World's End was kinda good but weaker then Dead Man's Chest (Or maybe the summer had too much good movies-Spider-Man 3,Shrek The Third,Harry Potter 5 and etc.),if it's better then At World's End then why not? :D.
Tron 2-Sounds great :D about time.
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Post by REINIER » March 16th, 2008, 12:24 pm

Must say that a cars 2 seems rather irrelevant to me,
Pirates 4, when will they learn.......
Tron2, not sure, if done good, then could be worth the wait
National Treasure 3, why not, Indy's back too right?

:D

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