Would you like to see animated musicals again?

Post by **Wonderlicious** » February 16th, 2005, 8:26 am

Okay, around 10 years ago, the necessity of almost every animated film was to have a fully-blown song score. Now, there are hardly any in animated films. I know Brother Bear and Home on the Range had one or two songs, but they weren't sung by the characters. The only recent animations that I can think of that were proper musicals were Shrek and Shrek 2, and even they are doubtful cases. Do you think that there should be a return to animated musicals?

Personally, I think that there should be. Many animated films that I grew up watching were musicals and I'd love to see a return of them in the CGI format to see what it looks like. Actually, I think that a musical cel-animated film could revive the dying genre.

Post by **James** » February 16th, 2005, 9:27 am

I'd say that Brother Bear and Home on the Range are closer to a musical than Shrek and Shrek 2. The Shreks basically just used non-original pop songs as mood music. The two Disney films had original music used more as a part of the story telling.

Post by **AniMan** » February 16th, 2005, 10:54 am

Yeah, ditto on what James said. I wouldn't consider either Shrek a musical. Now that you mention it, there hasn't been a musical computer animated feature film yet. It would be very interesting to see. I think it's just a matter of time before you do see one. What happened is Pixar achieved phenomenal success with their films and every other studio that has put out a CG animated film since has tried to copy what Pixar did/does so well. My guess is when one of them finally attempts a musical again, and it is successful, then you will see the others follow suit.

But I'm with you on that, I do miss the animated musical. It was animation that has kept the musical alive in movies.

Let's hope we see another one soon.

Post by **Josh** » February 16th, 2005, 12:07 pm

Now that you mention it, there hasn't been a musical computer animated feature film yet

Jonah: A Veggietales Movie was a musical. As for Disney, Rapunzel will be a musical, with Jeanine Tesori (Mulan II) writing the songs. In addition, if I remember correctly, the upcoming Happy Feet from Warner Bros. will be a musical.

Post by **AniMan** » February 16th, 2005, 12:24 pm

Mickey A wrote:
Now that you mention it, there hasn't been a musical computer animated feature film yet
Jonah: A Veggietales Movie was a musical. As for Disney, Rapunzel will be a musical, with Jeanine Tesori (Mulan II) writing the songs. In addition, if I remember correctly, the upcoming Happy Feet from Warner Bros. will be a musical.

So that's one CG animated musical and 2 coming-soon-to-a-theater-near-you (so you can't count those 'cause they haven't been done yet!).

Veggietales, huh? Did that get wide-release in theaters? I really don't know: I didn't see it anywhere around or near where I live.

Post by **Wonderlicious** » February 16th, 2005, 2:16 pm

James wrote:I'd say that Brother Bear and Home on the Range are closer to a musical than Shrek and Shrek 2. The Shreks basically just used non-original pop songs as mood music.

Well, Shrek 2 and Shrek did have at least two musical numbers in them each (as in characters sing the songs). Probably part of the Disney spoof flavour.

Post by **Josh** » February 16th, 2005, 2:23 pm

So that's one CG animated musical and 2 coming-soon-to-a-theater-near-you (so you can't count those 'cause they haven't been done yet!).

It's better than nothing!

Veggietales, huh? Did that get wide-release in theaters? I really don't know: I didn't see it anywhere around or near where I live.

It was released on October 2, 2002, on about 940 screens. The movie's pretty good. I mean, it's not up to Pixar's or Disney's standards, but it's not bad either. The songs are pretty nice- simple but sweet. Still, Jonah is directed more toward the kiddies than adults. But I would recommend it to you, since you are a fan of animated musicals.

Post by **AniMan** » February 16th, 2005, 3:42 pm

I'll have to check it out. My kids love the Veggietales movies!

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » February 16th, 2005, 4:19 pm

Here's the rub with doing new musicals, though.

WHO are they going to get to replace Howard Ashman?

Ashman and Alan Menken were THE best Disney songwriting/composing team since the Sherman Brothers! There just hasn't been another pairing of a duo that's been as good since Ashman died in 1991. Even Menken paired with Tim Rice or whoever else just hasn't been able to recapture the magic he had with Ashman.

Ashman was simply the best lyricist to come to Disney in 30 years!

Think about it.

As much as people like to talk about how fresh the animation was in Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, and Aladdin, there's another bigger reason why a number of us refer to these films as the "Ashman/Menken trilogy." There's a reason why these movies got a special boxset of DVDs in the mid-1990s while the rest got single cuts in the Disney Greatest Hits but no such special boxset treatment.

There a consistency in the songwriting of these 3 films that just hasn't been equalled since. I've tried listening to the soundtracks of Disney films SINCE Aladdin, but they've been uneven and generally aren't as good top to bottom as any of these 3.

I say don't even bother doing new musicals unless the Ashman/Menken synergy can be recreated. Don't bother doing new musicals unless the powers-that-be realize the songs HAVE to complement and advance the stories in the movies, NOT be replacements for slow parts in the movie or used as filler.

(One common complaint about Tarzan is that Terk's musical number had no point in being in the movie...)

Post by **Josh** » February 16th, 2005, 4:43 pm

I want to see Menken and Rice team up again for a new musical.

Post by **Dajoka86** » February 16th, 2005, 5:43 pm

Hell, not only would I love to see more animated musicals, but more musicals in general!

There was talk of hiring the director of Moulin Rouge do direct animated films...anyone know what happened with that?

Post by **AniMan** » February 17th, 2005, 12:25 am

Hey, I agree that there was no team like Menken and Ashman. They created some of the most memorable songs in movie history. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't even try to create a new musical. There may be new creative musical talent out there waiting for a chance to shine. You shouldn't be so short-sighted as to think that they'll never get songs of that caliber again. It may take time, but I'm certain it will happen again. After all, that's exactly the problem with studios like Disney today. They've become afraid to take chances; they don't want to alter the formula even though it's not working anymore. You only fail if you stop trying..

BTW.. the music from The Lion King was pretty damn good! Elton John did a hell of a job. Circle of Life is definitely a memorable song, that keeps in line with the story, as does Hakuna matata. The musical is not dead, it's just on hiatus!

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » February 17th, 2005, 2:03 am

I never said they shouldn't try to do an animated musical again.

I'm just saying the current execu-think misses the point of songs in musicals. The songs exist to MOVE the story along -- you generally don't create an entire story around a song or two. Plot first, then the music. The film isn't just there so that they can sell records...

And I really don't think the music in the films since Aladdin has held up as well. Yes, there have been some good songs as then, but the soundtracks haven't been as good IMHO as they were in the Menken-Ashman collaborations.

I've had problems with the films' music from Lion King onward. I don't really think the Elton John, Phil Collins, Sting et al shtick has held up well. I wish the powers-that-be would get away from pop songs and go back to more classical timeless music. It doesn't have to be Tchaikovsky or Sondheim -- The Little Mermaid proved that with its variety of musical styles --, but I kinda wish they would stick to stick to music that doesn't sound like something from a Top 40 Music List.

FYI, I've gotta admit bias against "The Circle of Life." I hated that song because it got played so much everywhere that it became elevator muzaak. The only other song I can think of since that's gotten on my nerves was the Love Theme from Titanic. Again, it's a case of overkill.

Post by **AniMan** » February 17th, 2005, 10:29 am

Well, again, I am sure it will come around again where you see songs that move the story along and not songs tacked on to sell singles for the top 40 countdown. I do wholeheartedly agree, The Little Mermaid (a personal favorite, music-wise), Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin all greatly surpass the films that followed them as musicals but a film like The Lion King wasn't the kind of traditional musical that those three films were and I think that's because Alan Menken and Howard Ashman had a deep understanding and love of the theatrical. They were true showman in that sense. I miss Howard Ashman, but at least we still have Alan Menken. There is hope..

Post by **PatrickvD** » February 17th, 2005, 12:43 pm

Eventhough the scores Menken composed after Howard died weren't as good as the Little Mermaid and Beauty, they were in my opinion damn good. The music in Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules and Home on the Range is excellent. I feel these scores and songs tend to be overlooked. Most likely due to the fact that these movies were dissapointing at the Box Office and suffered some story problems. I hope they bring him back for a future Disney project.