Will 2D animation die?

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Post by Ben » July 27th, 2006, 11:27 am

Just posted this in another thread and thought it makes as much sense here, so:

Funnily enough, by the time Enchanted hits, we won't really have missed Disney feature animation as much as we thought we had.

It won't even have quite been three years between Home On The Range and Enchanted, and less if you include some of the better DTVs, which is nothing compared to the years and years waiting between Robin Hood in 1973 and The Rescuers in 1977, or The Fox And The Hound in 1981 and The Black Cauldron in 1985 - four years between them each!

And with The Frog Princess on the way (any bets that Schwartz is Menken's lyricist again on that one?), and more shorts, we're looking good!

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Post by Dacey » July 27th, 2006, 11:52 am

We are looking good indeed! ;)
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Post by Jake » July 27th, 2006, 2:27 pm

Ben wrote:Funnily enough, by the time Enchanted hits, we won't really have missed Disney feature animation as much as we thought we had.

It won't even have quite been three years between Home On The Range and Enchanted, and less if you include some of the better DTVs, which is nothing compared to the years and years waiting between Robin Hood in 1973 and The Rescuers in 1977, or The Fox And The Hound in 1981 and The Black Cauldron in 1985 - four years between them each!

And with The Frog Princess on the way (any bets that Schwartz is Menken's lyricist again on that one?), and more shorts, we're looking good!
Good point, though I suppose I always forget about "Home on the Range" because it was so awful. I liked "Treasure Planet" and "Lilo and Stitch" but to me, they didn't even begin to compare to Disney's greats, so sometimes I feel like they don't count. :lol: Hopefully Disney is able to bring back 2D as successfully as they have in the past, and there won't be anything to worry about.

Will "The Frog Princess" be a musical? I really hope so. 2D+Musicals=what Disney is best at.

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Post by ShyViolet » July 28th, 2006, 10:02 pm

Funnily enough, by the time Enchanted hits, we won't really have missed Disney feature animation as much as we thought we had.

It won't even have quite been three years between Home On The Range and Enchanted, and less if you include some of the better DTVs, which is nothing compared to the years and years waiting between Robin Hood in 1973 and The Rescuers in 1977, or The Fox And The Hound in 1981 and The Black Cauldron in 1985 - four years between them each!
Yeah, I remember that even months before Home on the Range came out, people were already moaning "2d is dead, 2d is dead....."

Kinda pessimistic....I mean if Disney really HATED 2d and was determined to kill it off (which they weren't, at least not in my opinion) HOTR would have gone directly to video.

Just my opinion though...

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Post by Meg » July 28th, 2006, 11:54 pm

Funnily enough, by the time Enchanted hits, we won't really have missed Disney feature animation as much as we thought we had.
That's the same thing I've been thinking.

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Post by Jake » July 29th, 2006, 2:31 am

ShyViolet wrote:Yeah, I remember that even months before Home on the Range came out, people were already moaning "2d is dead, 2d is dead....."

Kinda pessimistic....I mean if Disney really HATED 2d and was determined to kill it off (which they weren't, at least not in my opinion) HOTR would have gone directly to video.
Wasn't it Eisner though that made the statement, "2D is dead"? It didn't look good, with Disney shutting down its animation facilities, either. To be honest, I think "Home on the Range" was released in theatres to try and prove that 2D wasn't successful anymore. Disney, the people responsible for so many great classics, must've known that it wouldn't be a hit. It was awful; I know some may not feel that way, but that is the general consensus among most critics and audiences.

I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I'm just saying that there was a time when Disney actually thought 2D was dead. As a fan of 2D, that didn't give me a lot of hope for the future.

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Post by Ben » July 29th, 2006, 2:56 pm

Home On The Range was, to put it mildly, the sacrifical cow. :)

Brother Bear suprised a lot of people, but but essentially the slide was evident from Treasure Planet downwards.

The fact that HOTR was a PG animated Disney movie also went against it. I enjoyed it, for what it was, but see it as a second, or third, tier Disney movie.

The dumping in the middle of April did no-one any favors for its release and it was just put out to prove a "point".

However, the DTVs kept coming, and got better, so who's to say hand drawn (I hate the phrase 2D, since it's anything but) was ever dead at Disney's? There were times when it looked dead before, but the way I see it, we had a constant stream of product - not all of it grade A I grant you - and we're heading back to the top from next year.

I think everything needs a break and a re-boot every now and then, and after the toon-boom of the 1990s and the eventual glut and slide, we're about to have a good renewal.

The same will happen - is happening - to CGI movies. I think Enchanted and Frog Princess will be huge movies for Disney since everyone will suddenly realise what they've been missing.

If not, how come Aladdin, Lion King, Mermaid, etc still sell well on home video?

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Post by Chaya » July 30th, 2006, 2:57 am

Whoot! Sorry it's been soooooo long since my last visit here, guys.... animation school straight through the summer, yeah baby!

Anyways, I just thought that you all might find it interesting to hear that the majority of the students in my current animation classes are hoping to find a career in... 2D ANIMATION!!!! I would the number of students wanting a career in 2D vs 3D is about 2:1. Amazing, eh? So, hopefully a new generation of animators will step up to the plate and go against the grain that Hollywood has set before us!!!! MAY TRADITIONAL ANIMATION LIVE LONG AND PROSPER!!!!!!!!!!!!

erhem..... :)
"May traditional animation live long and prosper!"

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Post by ShyViolet » July 30th, 2006, 8:29 pm

If not, how come Aladdin, Lion King, Mermaid, etc still sell well on home video?
Not to mention Cinderella and Lady and the Tramp. :wink:
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Post by ShyViolet » July 30th, 2006, 9:35 pm

I wonder if DreamWorks might get back into 2d as well...my opinion is there's a good chance. :)

Sinbad was only released three years ago, after all.
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Post by Jake » July 31st, 2006, 5:58 am

ShyViolet wrote:I wonder if DreamWorks might get back into 2d as well...my opinion is there's a good chance. :)

Sinbad was only released three years ago, after all.
Lets hope so! I don't know if "Sinbad" is actually a good film or if its because I miss 2D, but I really liked it. They were starting to produce real classics too, like "Prince of Egypt". Hopefully, both 2D and CGI can exist together and be successful. I'd like to see 20th Century Fox bring back their traditional animation department, too.

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Post by Ben » July 31st, 2006, 9:24 am

ShyViolet wrote:
If not, how come Aladdin, Lion King, Mermaid, etc still sell well on home video?
Not to mention Cinderella and Lady and the Tramp. :wink:
That's what the "etc" was in my post, VI, or else we could have been here all night with one heck of a list! :)


I don't think DWs would get back into 2D animation until the boom is there again. I think they'll wait and see how Frog Princess will do first.

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Post by ShyViolet » July 31st, 2006, 12:52 pm

I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I'm just saying that there was a time when Disney actually thought 2D was dead. As a fan of 2D, that didn't give me a lot of hope for the future.

It's O.K....I know what you mean. :wink:

Actually I have yet to see HOTR, but I think it looks cute...if not terribly impressive. I heard snatches of the songs which I really liked. As well as the cartoonish style.

But it did look kinda "rushed out", and definetely not made with the care of Lion King, Hercules, or even Atlantis.
That's what the "etc" was in my post, VI, or else we could have been here all night with one heck of a list! Smile
Yeah, I know...I only put them because they were recent re-releases of old, (as oppposed to Disney Ren) classics.

:)

The fact that hand-drawn films from fifty and sixty years ago still more than hold up is, in my opinion, PROOF POSITIVE that there's nothing like traditional animation...and never will be. :wink:
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I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Christian » July 31st, 2006, 1:01 pm

I thought HOTR was alright but, like Ben, I don't see it as more than a second or third tier film. Not every film has to be or tries to be Gone With the Wind. At least a lot of HOTR looked pretty good.

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Post by Ben » July 31st, 2006, 2:05 pm

Yeah, and I wouldn't say it was "rushed out" either. Remember that HOTR was sitting on the shelf for a year before release and was completed before Brother Bear, but held back so that BB could tie in to The Lion King's video release.

Like Christian, I thought HOTR's animation was pretty cool overall, considering the cartoony, Emperor's New Groove approach they took.

If more traditional animation had come out straight away, it would have been seen as a slight dip in the factor production line, but as it ended the stream of films it was blown out of proportion.

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