Which animation studio would you rather work at?

[Macaluso]

Same here.

[Ben]

Tuck and Roll... very funny!

[AniMan]

"Someone's lost" was not the theme, thus no formula.

The movies are all about rescuing somebody. I have no resentment. I've seen the Incredibles probably about fifteen times and all of the other Pixar movies at least twice if not more and I don't watch a movie more than once if I didn't like it the first time. The movies all look different from each other and very visually appealing and they are all good about keeping the pace up. There's also a theme running through Pixar movies about some character or entity being concerned that they aren't important anymore or concerned that they are soon to become unimportant: Woody being displaced by the new-fangled space character, Flik being kicked out of the colony because he wasn't a help, Buzz feeling displaced and neglected because of all the Woody nostalgia, the scream factory worrying that kids weren't very scared of monsters anymore, Nemo worrying he might end up in a plastic bag uncared for just like the fish in the photo at the dentist's office, Bob Parr concerned about the glory days being over and that he could no longer put his powers to use for the good of mankind.

It's funny, Christian, but your examples still sound very dissimilar to me. Taking some small, familiar snippets from movies and then concluding that there is a common theme is such a stretch as to be silly. It's Pixar's unique and creative stoytelling that has brought them their success. Each story has been totally unique and original. Where else have you heard a story like Monsters Inc. or The Incredibles? When you look at what they are about, you can't just refer to some of the more familiar story devices used and ignore what the actual story is. I just find it odd to quibble about Pixar having a common theme in their movies (aka formula) but not having the same critique of Disney, the king of formula animation (albeit a formula that works; like I said before, I don't have a problem formulas, if they actually work and entertain me).

[Christian]

I am only pointing out that there is a formula there. It is hard for people to see the formula because the movies look so different from each other.

I just find it odd to quibble about Pixar having a common theme in their movies (aka formula) but not having the same critique of Disney, the king of formula animation

Actually I originally brought this up in another thread where people were accusing Disney of it and not seeing it in Pixar's films.

* We need to rescue Woody from the mean kid
* We need to rescue the ants from the grasshoppers
* We need to rescue Buzz from Al
* We need to rescue Boo from the lizard guy
* We need to rescue Nemo from the dentist
* We need to rescue Mr. Incredible from Syndrome

The movies do great with characterization and voice acting, have great visuals, keep up a fast pace, etc. and people tend to confuse all that with uniqueness of story but the core of the stories are the same, even more so than with Disney films. It is simply a matter of fact and it has worked well for them. You seem to be missing the point that I actually like the Pixar movies.

[Phil]

* We need to rescue Woody from the mean kid
* We need to rescue the ants from the grasshoppers
* We need to rescue Buzz from Al
* We need to rescue Boo from the lizard guy
* We need to rescue Nemo from the dentist
* We need to rescue Mr. Incredible from Syndrome

I don't think you can use this as evidence. The rescue theme isn't a Pixar formula, it's a Hollywood formula:
* We need to rescue Princess Leia from Darth Vader
* We need to rescue Snow White from the Wicked Queen with the apple
* We need to rescue the Ark of the Covenant from the Nazis
* We need to rescue Princess Fiona from the dragon's castle
* We need to rescue the latest Bond girl from the latest Bond villain
* We need to rescue ...

And it's not just Hollywood. There are books and plays and video games. Shakespeare even wrote about people rescuing other people.

A studio that uses tried and tested storytelling techniques in new and unique ways should not be accused of being formulaic. Pixar films do have certain similarities, but they share those similarities with hundreds of other well-told stories.

[Josh]

While I don't think I see as much of a pattern as Christian, I do agree that every one of Pixar films has a search/journey.

*Toy Story: Woody and Buzz attempt to get back to Andy's house, while the other toys search for Buzz.

*A Bug's Life: Flick searches for warrior bugs.

*Toy Story 2: Buzz and the gang search for Woody.

*Monsters, Inc.: Sully and Mike search for Boo's door.

*Finding Nemo: Marlin and Dory search for Nemo.

*The Incredibles: Helen and the kids search for Mr. Incredible.

I still think every Pixar film is original. However, there is a slight pattern going on there. Nothing major, though. It definitely isn't as noticeable as Disney's "I want" pattern.

[AniMan]

What I take issue with is that you all are grossly over-simplifying what these movies were about. I noticed that your "themes" were only part of what the movie was about. Most of these movies had more to their "theme" than the one line synopsis you give them; that is to say, it is only an element in the story, but not the premise. If you're going to simplify it that much, than every movie made is derived from a "formula".

[AniMan]

The movies do great with characterization and voice acting, have great visuals, keep up a fast pace, etc. and people tend to confuse all that with uniqueness of story but the core of the stories are the same, even more so than with Disney films.

..even more so than with Disney??? Holy smoke, you've gotta be kidding me! Disney's tried and true formula that it has used in countless films: girl falls in love with boy (Prince Charming, Beast, Eric, John Smith, ect. and so on..) despite adversity, accompanied by cute and or cuddly singing sidekicks. And I know I'm right because everyone immediately knows all those elements are immediately recognizable (and usually expected) in Disney films. I enjoy them, nevertheless, but they are absolutely formulaic, and explicitly so.

[Josh]

What I take issue with is that you all are grossly over-simplifying what these movies were about. I noticed that your "themes" were only part of what the movie was about. Most of these movies had more to their "theme" than the one line synopsis you give them; that is to say, it is only an element in the story, but not the premise. If you're going to simplify it that much, than every movie made is derived from a "formula".

But come on, Animan, wouldn't you agree that those plot points I brought out are major points in the stories? Besides, I think you are missing what I was trying to get across. Maybe I just didn't write my point as clearly as I should have.

Please pay more attention to those last few lines in my previous post. As I wrote, I think Pixar is original- very original and very good. I also agree with you that several of Disney's films rely too much on a formula. However, I still stand by my belief that every one of Pixar's films involve a search as a major plot point, though I congratulate the studio on its ability to integrate that familiar plot point in a seemingly fresh way every time. And I mean that as a compliment.

[Christian]

What MickeyA just said, every part of it including the compliment at the end.

[ShyViolet]

Pixar themes such as "be true to yourself", "be different from the crowd", "believe in who you are", "face your fears", are very much present in all their films. (I think Incredibles goes somewhat deeper than that, but it's not typical Pixar)

Like Christian said, that DOESN'T make them bad, it just gives them a much narrower range to work with than the average Disney (yes) or DW film.

Disney films are similar to Pixar in many of their ideas (especially since Pixar has openly said that they use the classic golden age Disney films as models) but Pixar's plots move in a very specific way, despite their originality. There is more visual stimulation/bits of business and less exposition in a Pixar film compared with the Disney films of the nineties and current DW films. (Blame that on JK for stressing character motivation over traditional "big picture" storytelling) And BOTH modern Disney films and DW films have taken on deeper issues such as fratricide (Lion King), racism (Pocahontas), faith, human suffering (Prince of Egypt), predjudice and repressed sexuality (Hunchback of Notre Dame). Pixar is great and everything but can you see them coming within five feet of these stories? Or packing in modern-day referances? (Aladdin and Lion King had these, which carried over to DW) You can say that referances are spoiling today's animated films, but Aladdin would not be the same film without them. Nor would Hercules, Mulan or the Emperor's New Groove.

I agree that rescue is common idea in their stories, stories of optimism and cooperation (which Pixar stresses) would logically involve rescue. With the exception of Incredibles, they make G-rated family pictures, period. They have their template and they stick to it.

[AniMan]

Okay, I was going to let this issue die, but couldn't resist pointing out this inaccuracy from ShyViolet:

And BOTH modern Disney films and DW films have taken on deeper issues such as fratricide (Lion King), racism (Pocahontas), faith, human suffering (Prince of Egypt), predjudice and repressed sexuality (Hunchback of Notre Dame). Pixar is great and everything but can you see them coming within five feet of these stories? Or packing in modern-day referances?

Umm, uh.. yeah, Pixar has dealt with some pretty heavy things. I'll list some of them, and what movie they are from:
rejection, loneliness, coming-of-age --- both Toy Story movies
DEATH, single parenthood, insecurity --- Finding Nemo
Aging, feeling unwanted (or uneccessary), INFIDELITY (at least, the possibility of it anyway), workplace stress, depression, child endangerment (these kids come close to buying the farm
) resentment, political correctness --- The Incredibles
And I'm not sure what the inclusion of modern-day references has to do with being formula or not or being a good story or not. That is irrelevant, although Pixar has done that too, just to a much lesser and more subtle degree (watch Monsters Inc. again)

[ShyViolet]

Umm, uh.. yeah, Pixar has dealt with some pretty heavy things. I'll list some of them, and what movie they are from:
rejection, loneliness, coming-of-age --- both Toy Story movies
DEATH, single parenthood, insecurity --- Finding Nemo
Aging, feeling unwanted (or uneccessary), INFIDELITY (at least, the possibility of it anyway), workplace stress, depression, child endangerment (these kids come close to buying the farm
) resentment, political correctness --- The Incredibles
And I'm not sure what the inclusion of modern-day references has to do with being formula or not or being a good story or not. That is irrelevant, although Pixar has done that too, just to a much lesser and more subtle degree (watch Monsters Inc. again)

Actually, I omitted the Incredibles from the Pixar list because it was made by an "outsider" Brad Bird--it's not a typical Pixar film. I definetly agree with you that relevant, intelligent and compelling ideas radiate from every Pixar film--hey, if we didn't care about the characters, Pixar wouldn't be what it is today. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't a "line" which Pixar subtly but stoically draws every time they make a movie. Because they're not going to deal with a man's repressed sexual desires and demons. They're not going to deal with a little cub haunted by guilt because he thinks he killed his dad. (Finding Nemo dealt with death, but did Marlin ever have post-traumatic flashbacks of Coral's death? She's never mentioned after that opening.) Or a hero who must betray his adopted brother to free his people from slavery. That just isn't what they do. And that's not bad--it's just who they are.
I also agree with you that an animated film doesn't need hip referances to be a great movie. (And I liked Monsters Inc's imitation of GE and other Corporations) Defintely not. I like Finding Nemo as much as the next person. But I love Aladdin and Shrek because they're funny and entertaining--just on a different plane than Pixar films. They can be different....artistically it doesn't mean one is "better" than the other. (Despite personal preferences, which everyone has.)

[Zach]

I would love to work at Walt Disney because they make Lilo and Stitch. I like Dreamworks because they make lots of good movies! I like Pixar too because of A Bug's Life and others! I like Warner Brothers (Scooby Doo 2:Monsters Unleashed) too!!!!My Final thought is I'd rather work at Walt Disney!!!! I have to disagree with some of you I think Pixar is very good!!!!

[ShyViolet]

I know this thread is old but...I think it's very relevent to what's going on now. Plus I remembered something that Ben said:

I've gone for Disney FA.

They were always great and will be again.

I think they will be, too.