Song of the South

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Re: Song of the South

Post by EricJ » June 26th, 2020, 2:30 pm

Dacey wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 2:03 pm
I do love how Eric assumes that Disney just makes attractions out of movies regardless of popularity. That's why we had those Atlantis and Treasure Planet thrill rides, right?
Wrrrrrong. I was saying how the FANBOYS are utterly convinced of that, and stay locked in that box that they never think outside of.
It didn't matter if we got Alien Encounter rehabbed into Stitch's Great Escape, and became one of the most despised rides at the park, all that mattered to the Stitchie-fans in '02 was that Lilo & Stitch finally got an attraction just like the real movies, woohoo!...Its time has come! (And it was their idea, that they wrote in with petitions! :mrgreen: )

And I suppose any argument about how we really got the Frozen ride at Epcot Norway would similarly be futile at this point, in the face of "But the movie made, like, money!"?

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Re: Song of the South

Post by James » June 26th, 2020, 4:24 pm

If you give a mouse a cookie...

"Following Splash Mountain Ride Redesign, Some Call for Disney to Change Jungle Cruise Next"
https://www.ign.com/articles/jungle-cru ... -criticism

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Re: Song of the South

Post by ShyViolet » June 26th, 2020, 8:19 pm

Oh...


:|


Well, I can see how some of those images of the jungle “natives” might offend some. (Particularly their descriptions on the tour as “savages.” :?) They’re certainly quite dated and don’t look too great today. Obviously, it was a different time. But I do feel that I should also say two words: “Slippery slope.”


All I can think of right now is two classic Walt Disney films that also took place in the jungle: (Jungle Book and Lion King of course, originally called “King of the Jungle”). As we know both films have long been criticized for stereotypes/songs that many found objectionable, which was and is completely within those people’s rights to do so. (As much as I love both of those movies, I can definitely see where some of those people are coming from: the King Louie “I wanna be like you,” sequence in JB wasn’t exactly Disney’s finest hour; and even though I thought this was really blown out of proportion, I can kind of see how the whole “inner city vibe” with the LK hyenas that had Black/Hispanic American accents might have made some a bit uncomfortable.)


But all of these demands that Disney pave over any possible image/film/ride that MIGHT potentially offend someone out there?? What’ll be left at the end? :shock: This is nuts! THIS IS CENSORSHIP, PURE AND SIMPLE.
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Re: Song of the South

Post by EricJ » June 26th, 2020, 10:37 pm

ShyViolet wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 8:19 pm
As much as I love both of those movies, I can definitely see where some of those people are coming from: the King Louie “I wanna be like you,” sequence in JB wasn’t exactly Disney’s finest hour; and even though I thought this was really blown out of proportion, I can kind of see how the whole “inner city vibe” with the LK hyenas that had Black/Hispanic American accents might have made some a bit uncomfortable.)
There's a DIFFERENCE between basing a swinging ape on (white Italian) Louis Prima, and basing hyena "gangs" on Whoopi Goldberg and Cheech Marin...
One of the two is just asking for trouble, and thinking it's cute and clever while doing it.

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Re: Song of the South

Post by Dacey » June 26th, 2020, 10:45 pm

I mean, it must've kind of sucked for Whoopi Goldberg--who I know loved voicing Shenzi--to read in multiple "hot take" pieces last summer that her popular character wasn't deemed "okay" now.

I mean...it's becoming only black people should voice black characters (or biracial ones!). However, if those characters aren't deemed "okay" now, then that's not good enough either. And considering the hyenas weren't voiced by white actors (well, except for Cummings) and instead by established comedians of color/heritage who did a lot of ad-libbing...that becomes confusing in its own right. :? (And hey, they both returned to the roles multiple times, including in Lion King 1.5 which wasn't even that long ago!)

For what it's worth, the "controversy" surrounding King Louie has to do with him "stealing" scat from African American singers of the era. Or something like that. It's been a while since I read up on that (then there was also that insanity involving the family "owning" the rights to the character, resulting in that "King Larry" weirdness on House of Mouse).
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Re: Song of the South

Post by EricJ » June 26th, 2020, 10:51 pm

Dacey wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 10:45 pm
For what it's worth, the "controversy" surrounding King Louie has to do with him "stealing" scat from African American singers of the era. Or something like that. It's been a while since I read up on that (then there was also that insanity involving the family "owning" the rights to the character, resulting in that "King Larry" weirdness on House of Mouse).
Primarily, it's that most people who don't bother to check IMDb first THINK Prima's hip, scratchy, scatting voice is Louis Armstrong's (who also made a few 60's Disney appearances, in a Disneyland short), and get on their horse about "A black singer playing an ape!"

And when they find out it was the King of the Swing, they quickly have to save face with emergency backup discussion-outrage alibis #2 and 3: "Well, it's still an ape saying he 'wants to be human'! And he wasn't in the book!"

...Nice save, Meryl.

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Re: Song of the South

Post by ShyViolet » June 27th, 2020, 1:23 am

Oh wow, remembering how good Cheech and Whoopi were reminds me of Marin’s Tito in Oliver and Company, one of my all-time favorite Disney characters.

If he’s eventually criticized as a “stereotypical” Hispanic character because of his accent or whatever (plus he shows Georgette how to dance Salsa at the end I think) and the notion of banning “Oliver” is floated, I will be so so so so so so so so so upset!!!! Tito is my guy! Lol. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

(Also kind of off topic but I can’t help but wonder why in the world there were never any Oliver and Company direct to video sequels: probably one of the ONLY Disney animated classics where follow-up adventures starring these characters would have been pure awesome rather than mostly unnecessary, even though some of the DTVs certainly had their charm.

My favorite line in the film: “Isn’t it rather dangerous to use one’s entire vocabulary in a single sentence?” Lol. :P)
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Re: Song of the South

Post by Ben » June 27th, 2020, 6:14 am

Disney made up, if they even needed to, for King Louie with Scat Cat in The ArtstoCats...

And how are all the Cheech & Chong movies NOT stereotypical!!?!!?!???

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Re: Song of the South

Post by EricJ » June 27th, 2020, 8:08 pm

Ben wrote:
June 27th, 2020, 6:14 am
Disney made up, if they even needed to, for King Louie with Scat Cat in The ArtstoCats...
And got picked on by the post-Eisner PC hipsters anyway for the Paul Winchell "Chinese" cat.

(Although you have to ask, between that, The Love Bug and One of Our Dinosaurs is Missing, what WAS it with the Ron Miller Disney and the wacky Chinese stereotypes, anyway?? :? )

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Re: Song of the South

Post by ShyViolet » June 28th, 2020, 5:10 pm

Ben wrote:
June 27th, 2020, 6:14 am
And how are all the Cheech & Chong movies NOT stereotypical!!?!!?!???

Yes, exactly. And if you think about it...like 99.9999% of ALL celebrity personalities have been at least SOMEWHAT based on ethnic/racial stereotypes.

I mean....hello? Seinfeld ring a bell?? What about Eddie Murphy? Mel Brooks? Will Smith? Jeff Goldblum? Robert De Niro? Seriously, I mean how would you come up with the “perfect” character that’s both representative of his/her background and yet COMPLETELY free of every single single mannerism/accent/characteristic that is popularly associated with that race or ethnicity, and still craft something remotely entertaining with believable, relatable characters?

Also who gets to decide what the “perfect” or “acceptable” tv/movie character is supposed to be like? How much should the potential character’s physical appearance (skin tone, etc...) reflect their race, and how much would be “stereotypical”? I wouldn’t want the job of having to make these decisions and then almost certainly getting criticized no matter WHAT I come up with. :?


Can’t imagine how certain bits of pop culture will fare from now on: as much as I love Independence Day (1996), I admit it has some stereotypes of certain groups that aren’t always flattering, :? but I don’t see anything wrong with simply enjoying it for its entertainment value.

One thing that has always helped keep racism at bay, at least to some extent, is PEOPLE INTERACTING TOGETHER EVERY DAY AS HUMAN BEINGS. In schools, in neighborhoods, in universities. In my opinion those experiences are a MILLION times more powerful than a stereotypical character in some animated or live-action movie one of those people might have seen as a kid.

Separation and categorization will NOT bring unity and understanding. It will invariably do the opposite. :( :( :(
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Re: Song of the South

Post by Ben » June 29th, 2020, 9:22 pm

Hello, and welcome. If by "recently" you mean 2006 — the last time the BBC screened SOTS on television here — then, yes, but it has since reverted to Disney and will not be shown again.

It’s been available on VHS here since the early 80s — even before it’s final theatrical reissue in the States in 1986 — first as a rental tape, and then as a sell-through release. This later tape still didn’t utilise the 1990s video paintbox master, which was the basis for the two final BBC showings in 2000 and 2006.

Since then the film has been preserved in 4K, but it is unlikely we will see an official release, leaving it down to those PAL speed-up VHSs, the subtitled Japanese LaserDisc, off-air BBC copies or other nefarious means to actually see the film.

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Re: Song of the South

Post by Daniel » July 2nd, 2020, 2:29 pm


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Re: Song of the South

Post by Ben » July 2nd, 2020, 3:41 pm

I knew you’d say that. Be gone, repeat offender! ;)

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Re: Song of the South

Post by gaastra » July 3rd, 2020, 11:08 am

Disney getting called out for not doing like hbo max did with gone with the wind and it's 4min warning saying disney needs to use song of the south as a history tool and put it on disney plus with a long intro. They even say just use tcm hosts. (heck woopi has said she would do a intro for it for disney for years)

So disney is getting called out.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/gone- ... d=msedgntp

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Re: Song of the South

Post by Ben » July 3rd, 2020, 1:05 pm

Yay! Now's the time to do it!

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