Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)

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Re: Tangled (Formerly Rapunzel)

Post by Bill1978 » March 5th, 2010, 5:00 am

Dusterian, just a quick question. I've been following the discussion on the title change in this thread and I notice you keep mentioning that Glen Keane and people working on it are unhappy with the title change. Just wondering if you can point me in the direction of where you got this info.

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Post by Ben » March 5th, 2010, 6:57 am

Disney is notorious for very late changes, right down to which label actually releases their films.

Roger Rabbit, Nightmare Before Christmas, Rocketeer and Dick Tracy are all cases in point that started off as Disney Pictures films and then either changed to Touchstone for US or International release. Nightmare was advertised as Disney right up until release, when it switched to Touchstone, and Rocketeer/Dick Tracy were Disney in the US and Touchstone overseas. What this change meant was anyone's guess!

They've also been very hot on alternative titles for worldwide release. All through the 90s and early 2000s many films were given last minute changes or came out in different names internationally. I guess they just have jittery marketeers who think a name change can make a film better! I still don't see the need for a name change here, but if it will help sell the film to a wider audience and get more films like it into production, then so be it. I'd rather have a "Tangled" success which leads to more fairytales than "Rapunzel" and a potential underachiever that puts a stop to more of the same.

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Post by estefan » March 5th, 2010, 7:35 am

And of course, there's the infamous "Basil of Baker Street" changed to "The Great Mouse Detective", only to have it changed again for the video release.
Ben wrote:I'd rather have a "Tangled" success which leads to more fairytales than "Rapunzel" and a potential underachiever that puts a stop to more of the same.
And I agree with this. I'm hoping that Tangled is a great film, first and foremost, but I don't want to see a Treasure Planet-like disaster, either. It's already been revealed that the Snow Queen cancellation was because of just in case this under-performs and they don't have another fairy tale coming straight after.

With that said, I hope Disney doesn't set their expectations impossibly high like they did with The Princess and the Frog (though I admit that my own box-office predictions were also too high, as like Disney, I thought everybody in the world were clamouring for a hand-drawn animated musical, when it was likely mainly just us animation and Disney fans). If it doesn't make close to the same numbers as Shrek 4 and Toy Story 3, but at the very least does maybe Lilo & Stitch-type numbers, that's perfectly all-right.

Then again, Lilo & Stitch-Pocahontas sized grosses were what I thought Frog would make at the very least.

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Re:

Post by James » March 5th, 2010, 7:45 am

Ben wrote:Disney is notorious for very late changes, right down to which label actually releases their films.

Roger Rabbit, Nightmare Before Christmas...
They're also notorious for later seemingly regretting those decisions and embracing the films and characters under the Disney name instead. Those late decisions are not always the right decisions, and even they admit that.

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Re: Tangled (Formerly Rapunzel)

Post by Bill1978 » March 6th, 2010, 1:46 am

though I admit that my own box-office predictions were also too high, as like Disney, I thought everybody in the world were clamouring for a hand-drawn animated musical, when it was likely mainly just us animation and Disney fans
This may have just been TPaTF's problem. People wanted a hand drawn animated musical of the early 90s and what they got was a hand drawn animated film with lacklustre songs. Even though TPaTF got 2 noms at the Oscars for its songs, I would personally think they feel more like those mediocre songs from The Swan Princess or Thumbelina. There just wasn't anything memorable about the songs, I personally think Randy Newman was a poor choice for the writer of the songs. I didn't walk out humming them like I did with the 90s movies. I have my fingers crossed that Tangled's songs are more memorable and I think it would also help to have a breakaway hit song that will be played on radio (not just RadioDisney) that will help remind people that Tangled is in cinemas

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Re: Tangled (Formerly Rapunzel)

Post by Julian Carter » March 6th, 2010, 1:58 pm

I think TPatF's songs worked in that they didn't command too much attention to themselves. That is, they were not the protagonists - the story was. There certainly seems to be a sense of musical modesty about the film, though ...

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Rapunzel

Post by Dusterian » March 7th, 2010, 11:17 am

Bill, it was at Tag blog, some workers at Disney and people like Floyd Norman told of how the workers on the film and Glen Keane did not like the title change.

The Princess and the Frog had songs that just weren't particularly outstandingly good or memorable. Nothing really hummable. I mean, take Down in New Orleans which opened and closed the film, it's such a slow, easy-going song, no amazing "ah, ah aaaahhhh!"s like we got in previous fairy tales. You have to admit, the music helped the Renaissance films be so great and memorable A LOT. I mean, you say they didn't need oustanding music...but if you want an outstanding film...yea, because the story itself wasn't too great either...still a good film all around, but an outstanding film, no.
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Post by James » March 9th, 2010, 11:29 pm

More Tangled in the news:

Disney restyles 'Rapunzel' to appeal to boys
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-c ... 4175.story

The Real Reason Disney Changed 'Rapunzel' to 'Tangled'
http://www.cinematical.com/2010/03/09/t ... o-tangled/

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Post by Randall » March 10th, 2010, 12:26 am

Ah, fuel to the fire... :)

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Post by Macaluso » March 10th, 2010, 1:51 am

Look at all those words for something that isn't a big deal

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Rapunzel or Tangled

Post by Dusterian » March 10th, 2010, 10:42 am

Changing the name of something in a move that goes against what the company stands for and the kind of films they were built on just to appeal to another demographic from market research and theories they don't even know truly prove anything is a big deal.

Especially when, as we've at least heard from some people, the original directors didn't even want or like the name change on this, their own film they created.

And now we know for sure Floyd Norman, veteran animator since Walt's days, doesn't approve, and knows Walt wouldn't have done it. He also hopes it gets changed back like...everybody in the world.
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Re:

Post by EricJ » March 10th, 2010, 2:05 pm

Dusterian wrote:And now we know for sure Floyd Norman, veteran animator since Walt's days, doesn't approve, and knows Walt wouldn't have done it. He also hopes it gets changed back like...everybody in the world.
Floyd was always sketching the in-house grumbles on Jim Hill's site, only this one managed to hit the LA Times. Let's see if that Disney Legend plaque pays off with a little bit of credibility for being seen as the "voice of dissent".

And one exchange on the TAG said it all, even just from the other side from the fan whines:
Steve Hulett said...
I think these folks should take chill pills and get over it.
Rapunzel-Tangled-WhatsIt is a Moo Vie. Let's keep the various elements of life in perspective.

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:22:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Easy for you to say Steve. You havent poured yourself into this movie for the last ___ years only to have it cheapened by spineless suits who are scared into making knee-jerk decisions.
Is it any surprise the fans are reacting this way?
Sure, theres no lives being saved or humanity-changing science being performed here in Burbank, but we still take pride in what we do, and we hate seeing the film being trotted out like this.
But what do you care, right? Enjoy your new building.

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Re:

Post by Foxtale » March 10th, 2010, 10:46 pm

James wrote:More Tangled in the news:

Disney restyles 'Rapunzel' to appeal to boys
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-c ... 4175.story
Good article, thanks for posting.

It makes me kind of sad (if what it says is true) that they are changing the movie so drastically at the last minute because of the flop of the Princess and the Frog. It seems like the intended theme and meaning of the story might get misplaced in these rapid changes by the desire for money. Understandably the company needs to make money to keep producing films, and movies change all the time when being produced, but such a publicized altering emphasizes that the color green is really what drives a lot of stories, it kind of makes me sad. I hope I am wrong and it is just the marketing campaign and name they are changing. (or maybe I'm just naive ;P)
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Post by eddievalient » March 12th, 2010, 10:55 am

I can already tell, man. Anyone who-gasp!-actually likes the finished film as is will be fighting with fanboys forever. You know who I'm talking about. Those people who will refuse to like the film (or admit publicly to liking it) on principle and won't listen to any pro-Tangled opinion ever, even if the movie is a genuine hit with loads of critical acclaim. We all know how annoying those people can be so I'm asking you now: when you see the film, please keep an open mind and enjoy what is, not what might have been.
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Post by Foxtale » March 12th, 2010, 11:42 am

I hope, as you stated eddie, there aren't people who feel so strongly about the name change that they won't give the movie a fair chance. :( That would be quite unfortunate.

I am still anxiously waiting for a trailer (not just a teaser). I want to see the characters in full rendered motion. :D
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