Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
Dacy, yes, you're right about a lot of that. I still have two things though:
Walt was about moving forward, but he kept some things the same. The way his movies are have some things the same and some things different. The three fairy tales turned out similar but different.
So, the future films the studio does, especially the fairy tales, should be similar but different to the past ones.
A similarity that all the past ones shared was keeping the backgrounds of characters, the title, and a few other details the same as the originals, which got broken this time, and I just don't know what they're going to break next.
As for Flynn's cynicism, it's the way he did it. I am starting to realize more and more that I pick up on the way people do things, the feelings. Grumpy wasn't cutting like Flynn was. Flynn was like "Oh god, this fairy tale movie, this everything-that-Disney-is-about-ness" and Grumpy was more "I don't like women, I'm not trusting!" It's just different. The humor, the cynicism...it was cutting, ironic, not like the more innocent, gentler Disney I knew.
Walt was about moving forward, but he kept some things the same. The way his movies are have some things the same and some things different. The three fairy tales turned out similar but different.
So, the future films the studio does, especially the fairy tales, should be similar but different to the past ones.
A similarity that all the past ones shared was keeping the backgrounds of characters, the title, and a few other details the same as the originals, which got broken this time, and I just don't know what they're going to break next.
As for Flynn's cynicism, it's the way he did it. I am starting to realize more and more that I pick up on the way people do things, the feelings. Grumpy wasn't cutting like Flynn was. Flynn was like "Oh god, this fairy tale movie, this everything-that-Disney-is-about-ness" and Grumpy was more "I don't like women, I'm not trusting!" It's just different. The humor, the cynicism...it was cutting, ironic, not like the more innocent, gentler Disney I knew.
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
I feel like we're in an opinion ping-pong game..only the games been going on for months now. 
I love all things cinema, from silent movies to world cinema to animated cinema to big blockbusters to documentaries and everything in between!
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
Honestly, now you're not even making sense to me. Either that, or you're just imagining things that aren't there to support your argument.Grumpy wasn't cutting like Flynn was. Flynn was like "Oh god, this fairy tale movie, this everything-that-Disney-is-about-ness" and Grumpy was more "I don't like women, I'm not trusting!"
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."
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Flynn wants the crown. Girl has the crown. Flynn's usual charm does not work on the girl, so he has been blackmailed to escort her to the one place he doesn't want to go. She is extremely innocent and utterly clueless about the real world. It frustrates Flynn that he is saddled with her, when all he wants is the crown. Of course he is going to express these 'cynical' feelings. It's called being human, I for one probably couldn't resist mocking Rapunzel the way Flynn did for some of Rapunzel's actions, words and thoughts. It's not unDisney, it's called being a realistic character. In fact, it highlights what a doofus and underdeveloped handbag Prince Eric was to not do the same with Ariel.
And Dust, you are happy for Disney to keep the things the same (which in Tangled meant golden hair, magic flower, musical, funny offsiders etc) but then you also said you are happy for them to do things differently (which in Tangled they changed the backstory and had 'modern' humour and 'cynicism). But you aren't happy that they were different with Tangled, you wanted a straight retelling. So that part of your discussion makes no sense, what you really mean is be different but only according to how you want them to be different.
I wished for a great choral ending of When Will My LIfe Begin at the conclusion and was greatly disappointed it wasn't there when I got the soundtrack BUT after seeing the movie, it doesn't bother me that much as the music fits the end brilliantly. Would I have liked the choral ending, hell yes! Will its absence prevent me from loving Tangled and recommending it to everyone? Hell no! Will its absence cause me to attack Disney for forgetting tradition and the legacy of Walt Disney. Definitely not!
The only negative thing that Tangled did for me, was make me wish that we were getting something in a similar vein to Tangled this year and not the antiquated Winnie-The-Pooh movie.
And Dust, you are happy for Disney to keep the things the same (which in Tangled meant golden hair, magic flower, musical, funny offsiders etc) but then you also said you are happy for them to do things differently (which in Tangled they changed the backstory and had 'modern' humour and 'cynicism). But you aren't happy that they were different with Tangled, you wanted a straight retelling. So that part of your discussion makes no sense, what you really mean is be different but only according to how you want them to be different.
I wished for a great choral ending of When Will My LIfe Begin at the conclusion and was greatly disappointed it wasn't there when I got the soundtrack BUT after seeing the movie, it doesn't bother me that much as the music fits the end brilliantly. Would I have liked the choral ending, hell yes! Will its absence prevent me from loving Tangled and recommending it to everyone? Hell no! Will its absence cause me to attack Disney for forgetting tradition and the legacy of Walt Disney. Definitely not!
The only negative thing that Tangled did for me, was make me wish that we were getting something in a similar vein to Tangled this year and not the antiquated Winnie-The-Pooh movie.
Last edited by Bill1978 on January 31st, 2011, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
God, what is this? I mean really, it's like you're just throwing words together to make a sentence. Are you even reading what you're writing? How does this make sense? Argh you're going to give me an aneurysmDusterian wrote: As for Flynn's cynicism, it's the way he did it. I am starting to realize more and more that I pick up on the way people do things, the feelings. Grumpy wasn't cutting like Flynn was. Flynn was like "Oh god, this fairy tale movie, this everything-that-Disney-is-about-ness" and Grumpy was more "I don't like women, I'm not trusting!" It's just different. The humor, the cynicism...it was cutting, ironic, not like the more innocent, gentler Disney I knew.
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Well, if it was easy to capture the magic of Disney, in words or in a film, then other studios would be able to do it, too.
It's hard for me to describe what it is about the cynicism and humor that feels so different and wrong in a Disney film for me. So since I can't describe it very well, I guess there's nothing else I can do about it. Maybe when I see the film again, maybe after watching a lot of other Disney films along with it, but until then, I guess I can't describe it very well.
Bill, actually Eric was a jerk in the original film with all the faces he made at Ariel, there was something off-putting about how he treated her. But anyway, they don't need to be the same in the ways that I say, they need to be the same in the way that Disney's films were clearly the same. And that was the character's backgrounds at least staying the same, and they all had a gentler, not cutting humor. And the title, of course. Oh, and the original story didn't have a magical flower. It had a kind of plant from the witch's garden called Rapunzel that Rapunzel's mother ate to gve birth to her, which is how Rapunzel got her name. Tangled doesn't do this, so Rapunzel's name doesn't even make sense in Tangled, another thing wrong. They could have had a magical Rapunzel plant (which has purple flowers on it), but no, they decided not to.
It's hard for me to describe what it is about the cynicism and humor that feels so different and wrong in a Disney film for me. So since I can't describe it very well, I guess there's nothing else I can do about it. Maybe when I see the film again, maybe after watching a lot of other Disney films along with it, but until then, I guess I can't describe it very well.
Bill, actually Eric was a jerk in the original film with all the faces he made at Ariel, there was something off-putting about how he treated her. But anyway, they don't need to be the same in the ways that I say, they need to be the same in the way that Disney's films were clearly the same. And that was the character's backgrounds at least staying the same, and they all had a gentler, not cutting humor. And the title, of course. Oh, and the original story didn't have a magical flower. It had a kind of plant from the witch's garden called Rapunzel that Rapunzel's mother ate to gve birth to her, which is how Rapunzel got her name. Tangled doesn't do this, so Rapunzel's name doesn't even make sense in Tangled, another thing wrong. They could have had a magical Rapunzel plant (which has purple flowers on it), but no, they decided not to.
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
Jesus.
I love all things cinema, from silent movies to world cinema to animated cinema to big blockbusters to documentaries and everything in between!
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Okay...
Just a quick note on Black Swan, which I saw Monday. Yes, it was bonkers...but brilliant! An excellent exploration of someone losing it under immense pressure, I didn't think it went histrionic for the final 30 minutes - it was pretty up there from only a few minutes in! What I also liked was that it was absolutely contemporary, but felt like a classic picture, like The Red Shoes, to pick the obvious comparison. I thought it was better than The King's Speech (also very good though) but it's not your typical Best Picture material, which is why it sadly can't win, though the Direction and especially Natalie Portman as Actress certainly deserve serious consideration. For those that think they can stomach it, Black Swan is definitely worth seeing!
Now back on topic...to Tangled, which I did end up going to see last night.
Well, in short: frack me if I didn't think that EVERYthing that Dusty has been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about was a load of megaton, premium grade bull!
Wow...what a freakin' classic, purest kind of Disney picture that anyone could hope for! I was mesmerized after about 30 seconds in and stayed absolutely enchanted for the whole thing. Three times there were actually moments when I realized I'd just said "wow" out loud in the theater!
I wasn't a big fan of Flynn's opening lines, though they were over quick and still set up the Once Upon A Time concept fairly neatly, but from then on, it was just amazing. I thought the direction was FANTASTIC, the most innovative in an animated film (Disney or otherwise) since Tarzan. In fact I thought it was the best pure Disney film since Tarzan.
Glen Keane's hands were all over this thing, and the animation was superlative: having now seen it I am SHOCKED that this didn't make the Best Animated Feature pick over Dragon or (yes, I'm gonna say it) Toy Story 3. The movement was sublime, the story expertly told for this (or any other, for that matter!) day and age.
The songs were gorgeous. I was a little worried, truth be told, that the wonderful Alan Menken might have too easily relied on previous "tricks", but this score was awesomely new, and felt more like Sondheim than anything he's done before (I picked up flecks of Pocahontas tone in there too). I was reminded of the score for Damn Yankees (for some reason), but it was all just perfectly done, and I quite liked the shorter length of the songs juxtaposed with having more of them more frequently.
Rapunzel's song was stuck in my mind all the way home, and her mother's one absolutely blew me away in the whole presentation. Her animation was among the best in the film, and I totally forgot I was watching CGI. Heck, I was even totally drawn into the 3D aspect too, which was AMAZINGLY well done. There were moments again where I was blown away by the visuals and will admit that the 3D added "something" to the presentation here.
I really don't know what the griping is about. This was a bona fide, absolutely classic Disney fairytale animated musical feature. It didn't put a single step wrong. I found myself comparing moments to Snow White, Little Mermaid, Beauty And The Beast...it was in that league for sure.
Rapunzel and Flynn's relationship was perfectly formed too. What's all this crud about them saying "I love you" too quick? NO-ONE IN THE FILM EVER SAID "I LOVE YOU". Those words were never uttered. If you think they fell for each other too quick, well let me tell you that you need to get out there and have an intense amount of time with someone of the opposite sex. I've "fallen in love" in a matter of days before, when an intense situation has called for me to work closely with someone who was obviously attracted to me back. I totally bought the way they started to care for each other, especially Rapunzel, who's been locked up in a tower all her life: she's going to instantly be drawn to the first hunk she lays eyes on and spends time with.
One thing I might have liked would be for her to start the song in the tavern as a distraction: it seemed too convenient for the roughian to start going on about dreams, when it might have been nice for her to start it. But it still worked, and I laughed out loud sever times during the sequence. I didn't find the horse Maximus to be as funny as others have been saying, but he was an excellent performer, again with top-notch animation.
I really can't see how this hugely entertaining bullseye of a classic Disney film didn't get more recognition than Toy Story 3. Sure, that film was good in its own way, but its a sequel with returning characters, the same plot, etc, whereas Tangled took a formula and turned it around to give us a totally new experience that still felt just as old fashioned as it should.
I'm SO pleased that it was an animated musical fairytale that came in as Disney's "50th Animated Motion Picture", as the special WDAS logo had it at the front and end. And I'm very glad that the film has found an audience that has made it the kind of hit befitting such a milestone. Sure, the film could have been called Rapunzel, but it really was more than that. Yes, it had a girl with long hair locked in a tower, but that was about it. The original story didn't play out here at all, and the focus on Flynn did make it a two-hander. Tangled may well have been a marketing ploy, but it's one that, in retrospect, works anyway.
I'm wracking my brain to think of things I didn't like, but it was all so good. I can't wait to see it again, though with only a month to go I'll wait for the BD. Simply put, Tangled was everything that a Disney fairytale for the 21st century needed to be. While being absolutely ready for the here and now, it had a wonderful hark back to the real classics. Having now seen it, I frankly can't see why any of us are even reading what Dusty is saying. He's not making an sense! Tangled is pure Disney, more so than even Enchanted and certainly more than the last ten years' of pictures, good as some of them were.
The studio is absolutely back on track. I'm now more than a little worried that Pooh will be seen as a step back, when really what they need to do is push forward with more innovative stuff, like a new, original concept akin to Lady And The Tramp, 101 Dalmatians or The Lion King. I hope that Disney doesn't just keep doing "Disney" films now, as that wouldn't be progressive to the obvious creativity there. They're back on a roll. They need to keep moving forward with this one foot in the past and one very much striding into the future, and I hope they mix those kind of new projects I think they should be doing with the kind of traditional musical fairytale that's the Studio's trademark (and which Tangled proves is still in demand when done right).
Bring on "Frosted"!
Just a quick note on Black Swan, which I saw Monday. Yes, it was bonkers...but brilliant! An excellent exploration of someone losing it under immense pressure, I didn't think it went histrionic for the final 30 minutes - it was pretty up there from only a few minutes in! What I also liked was that it was absolutely contemporary, but felt like a classic picture, like The Red Shoes, to pick the obvious comparison. I thought it was better than The King's Speech (also very good though) but it's not your typical Best Picture material, which is why it sadly can't win, though the Direction and especially Natalie Portman as Actress certainly deserve serious consideration. For those that think they can stomach it, Black Swan is definitely worth seeing!
Now back on topic...to Tangled, which I did end up going to see last night.
Well, in short: frack me if I didn't think that EVERYthing that Dusty has been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about was a load of megaton, premium grade bull!
Wow...what a freakin' classic, purest kind of Disney picture that anyone could hope for! I was mesmerized after about 30 seconds in and stayed absolutely enchanted for the whole thing. Three times there were actually moments when I realized I'd just said "wow" out loud in the theater!
I wasn't a big fan of Flynn's opening lines, though they were over quick and still set up the Once Upon A Time concept fairly neatly, but from then on, it was just amazing. I thought the direction was FANTASTIC, the most innovative in an animated film (Disney or otherwise) since Tarzan. In fact I thought it was the best pure Disney film since Tarzan.
Glen Keane's hands were all over this thing, and the animation was superlative: having now seen it I am SHOCKED that this didn't make the Best Animated Feature pick over Dragon or (yes, I'm gonna say it) Toy Story 3. The movement was sublime, the story expertly told for this (or any other, for that matter!) day and age.
The songs were gorgeous. I was a little worried, truth be told, that the wonderful Alan Menken might have too easily relied on previous "tricks", but this score was awesomely new, and felt more like Sondheim than anything he's done before (I picked up flecks of Pocahontas tone in there too). I was reminded of the score for Damn Yankees (for some reason), but it was all just perfectly done, and I quite liked the shorter length of the songs juxtaposed with having more of them more frequently.
Rapunzel's song was stuck in my mind all the way home, and her mother's one absolutely blew me away in the whole presentation. Her animation was among the best in the film, and I totally forgot I was watching CGI. Heck, I was even totally drawn into the 3D aspect too, which was AMAZINGLY well done. There were moments again where I was blown away by the visuals and will admit that the 3D added "something" to the presentation here.
I really don't know what the griping is about. This was a bona fide, absolutely classic Disney fairytale animated musical feature. It didn't put a single step wrong. I found myself comparing moments to Snow White, Little Mermaid, Beauty And The Beast...it was in that league for sure.
Rapunzel and Flynn's relationship was perfectly formed too. What's all this crud about them saying "I love you" too quick? NO-ONE IN THE FILM EVER SAID "I LOVE YOU". Those words were never uttered. If you think they fell for each other too quick, well let me tell you that you need to get out there and have an intense amount of time with someone of the opposite sex. I've "fallen in love" in a matter of days before, when an intense situation has called for me to work closely with someone who was obviously attracted to me back. I totally bought the way they started to care for each other, especially Rapunzel, who's been locked up in a tower all her life: she's going to instantly be drawn to the first hunk she lays eyes on and spends time with.
One thing I might have liked would be for her to start the song in the tavern as a distraction: it seemed too convenient for the roughian to start going on about dreams, when it might have been nice for her to start it. But it still worked, and I laughed out loud sever times during the sequence. I didn't find the horse Maximus to be as funny as others have been saying, but he was an excellent performer, again with top-notch animation.
I really can't see how this hugely entertaining bullseye of a classic Disney film didn't get more recognition than Toy Story 3. Sure, that film was good in its own way, but its a sequel with returning characters, the same plot, etc, whereas Tangled took a formula and turned it around to give us a totally new experience that still felt just as old fashioned as it should.
I'm SO pleased that it was an animated musical fairytale that came in as Disney's "50th Animated Motion Picture", as the special WDAS logo had it at the front and end. And I'm very glad that the film has found an audience that has made it the kind of hit befitting such a milestone. Sure, the film could have been called Rapunzel, but it really was more than that. Yes, it had a girl with long hair locked in a tower, but that was about it. The original story didn't play out here at all, and the focus on Flynn did make it a two-hander. Tangled may well have been a marketing ploy, but it's one that, in retrospect, works anyway.
I'm wracking my brain to think of things I didn't like, but it was all so good. I can't wait to see it again, though with only a month to go I'll wait for the BD. Simply put, Tangled was everything that a Disney fairytale for the 21st century needed to be. While being absolutely ready for the here and now, it had a wonderful hark back to the real classics. Having now seen it, I frankly can't see why any of us are even reading what Dusty is saying. He's not making an sense! Tangled is pure Disney, more so than even Enchanted and certainly more than the last ten years' of pictures, good as some of them were.
The studio is absolutely back on track. I'm now more than a little worried that Pooh will be seen as a step back, when really what they need to do is push forward with more innovative stuff, like a new, original concept akin to Lady And The Tramp, 101 Dalmatians or The Lion King. I hope that Disney doesn't just keep doing "Disney" films now, as that wouldn't be progressive to the obvious creativity there. They're back on a roll. They need to keep moving forward with this one foot in the past and one very much striding into the future, and I hope they mix those kind of new projects I think they should be doing with the kind of traditional musical fairytale that's the Studio's trademark (and which Tangled proves is still in demand when done right).
Bring on "Frosted"!
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
Great post, Ben! 
I gotta say that I'm really on the fence over whether I love "Tangled" more than "Dragon." At first, "Dragon" was my pick, but since then I've seen "Tangled" three times in theaters and am more than game for a fourth. In any case, I sincerely love both films and they're both pretty close to perfect in my opinion. And yes, they're both better than TS3.
(not trying to sound like I disliked that film at all, btw, because I greatly enjoyed it. Just getting a little tired of the endless praise, that's all.)
I gotta say that I'm really on the fence over whether I love "Tangled" more than "Dragon." At first, "Dragon" was my pick, but since then I've seen "Tangled" three times in theaters and am more than game for a fourth. In any case, I sincerely love both films and they're both pretty close to perfect in my opinion. And yes, they're both better than TS3.
(not trying to sound like I disliked that film at all, btw, because I greatly enjoyed it. Just getting a little tired of the endless praise, that's all.)
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."
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I think Dragon is better than Tangled (and TS3 is best out of all of them), but like Ben said, this felt like the first genuine DISNEY movie in a very long time. Don't get me wrong, I like Treasure Planet and Atlantis and Emperor's New Groove is one of the funniest Disney movies ever. And I've even said that Bolt is great. But this felt like a great classic Disney movie. I would easily put it alongside Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Little Mermaid and The Lion King. Easily their best in a very long time.
Also as I said several pages back, the "I love you" thing was handled so amazingly well in this movie.
Oh also I totally loved How To Train Your Dragon, don't get me wrong.
Also as I said several pages back, the "I love you" thing was handled so amazingly well in this movie.
Oh also I totally loved How To Train Your Dragon, don't get me wrong.
Last edited by Macaluso on February 3rd, 2011, 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tangled (formerly Rapunzel)
Does "frack me" mean like "I would be wrong if I"?
I'm glad you liked the film. That doesn't mean you can't like all the things you did and yet also agree with what I said which I explained and backed up by reasons.
At least we agree that it was better than Toy Story 3, and I didn't see How to Train Your Dragon yet but I bet it's better than that too.
I'm glad you liked the film. That doesn't mean you can't like all the things you did and yet also agree with what I said which I explained and backed up by reasons.
At least we agree that it was better than Toy Story 3, and I didn't see How to Train Your Dragon yet but I bet it's better than that too.