Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull

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Post by ShyViolet » March 10th, 2006, 8:00 pm

Now let's look at the battle on the lava world at the end of Return of the Sith. Throughout the fight, despite the fact that we are told that Anakin's supposed to be one of the strongest of the Jedi, you don't really see any clear victor during Anakin and Obi-wan's chaotic struggle. Despite all of the foreshadowing that Anakin was going to be some ultimate bad guy, Obi-wan never seems to be at much of a disadvantage. Then they stop fighting all together, losing any tension from the seen that had built up in the scene, if any, and Obi-wan says how he has the higher ground, and if Anakin attacks him Anakin will lose. Then Anakin attacks him anyway and loses. Lame! Where is the increase of jeopardy for Obi-wan? Where is Obi-wan certain to get defeated to make us get on the edge of are seats worrying about him? Where is the miraculous and unexpected twist of fate that allows Obi-wan to narrowly escape death and gain the upper hand? I'm sorry, but it's just not there! Obi-wan cuts down Anakin as easily as a food processor dices a head of lettuce, and doesn't even lose his breath while doing it. The control of tension for that scene was so poorly played out that I doubt Lucas even bothered to storyboard that sequence at all.
Just wanted to say that this is a really good description of exactly what was wrong with ROTS: You just didn't care. (At least not much). You kinda care 'cause it's Obi-Wan and Luke's dad and Yoda up there, but aside from that....it's like Lucas thinks in his mind "Oh, everyone will be so stoked to see these characters again and that climactic battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan...who needs dramatic tension? It's already there!" You know the whole time how the whole thing is going to turn out (which is major weakness of the prequels, but one that might have been overcome had Lucas provided any genuine insight into the story itself) so a writer/diector needs to work pretty hard to make you care.
OF COURSE we know that Obi is going to make it (otherwise how could he show up in Episode IV?) so there needs to be some genuine tension. There isn't.

Another thing is Anakin's character. We felt some real sympathy for him at the end of Jedi, seeing him trapped in the suit like that after he'd saved Luke's life. There is very little, if any of that in the prequals. Anakin, or rather Lucas, never reveals what the heck is going on in this guy's mind.


Oh--Anakin is cold and scared...that must mean he misses his mother which must mean that he's sad which means he's afraid which means he's angry which means.....Thanks for that Yoda. There's no way anyone would have figured this out without Yoda's helpful insight. That terrible "yippee!" dialgoue certainly didn't help.

Anakin is mad at Obi Wan because....Obi basically raised him from a child? Helped free him from slavery? Helped him develop his powers? Supposadly Obi is this overbearing guy....but we never SEE that. That's one of the reasons that Anakin is so unlikable, because his grievences seem to spring from nowhere.

Anakin loves Amidala because....she's hot? That's about the extent of my knowlege.

Anakin's mother's death is the reason for his plunge into evil? He was away from her for ten years and suddenly one day it occurs to him to check up on her? Where was he before that?

Anakin wants to save Padme but somehow ends up killing her. I was definetely lost with this one. "Obi-Wan turned against me....don't you turn against me!" Huh?


The script is more like an outline for a film, not a real screenplay. As a writer there is no worse gaffe than "telling" instead of showing, but Lucas does it all the way through. If he'd been a novice filmmaker trying to get into the biz and came in with a script like this, he never would have made it.
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Ben » March 11th, 2006, 2:22 pm

At last...a kindred spirit!!

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Post by Hoagiebot » March 17th, 2006, 4:00 am

Ben wrote:At last...a kindred spirit!!
That makes two kindred spirits-- I agree with what Violet said about ROTS as well!
Christian wrote:One thing you could do is write to Spielberg and ask him not to make Indy IV. One reason he is making it is because so many people have asked for it. He's damned if he makes it because it can't match what everybody has imagined for it and damned if he doesn't because at least some people will complain that he doesn't listen to the fans' requests.
You know, as much as I fear that Lucas and Spielberg are going to drop the ball on this one (especially since the script for this film has supposedly had to be re-written a few times), since there have been rumors about an Indy IV being made for so long now that now I am curious to see how they approach the film and if they drop the ball or not. I guess that my feelings about it now are kind of like watching a magician saw a woman in two during a magic act-- you already know the outcome of the trick and that the woman will be fine, but you still want to see the trick because you want to try to see how it was done and secretly you hope that something goes wrong and the woman will scream as the saw hits her! So in other words, I am kind of interesting to see if Indy IV will stand up to my scrutiny, or if it will scream when my saw hits it!

I want to see a great Indiana Jones movie-- deep down I really do-- but my hopes are so low for most of the movies that are coming out of Hollywood these days that I just don't expect to see a great one anymore. While that definitely makes me a glass half empty kind of guy when it comes to movies, at least that means that I am pleasantly surprised when I do happen to see a great movie instead of being disappointed all of the time when all of the movies that I thought would be great turn out not to be when I end up seeing them.

If the worst case scenario comes to pass and the new Indiana Jones movie ends up seriously reeking, I can always end up doing what I did with STAR WARS: Hold on to my old non-special edition non-THX remastered set of the original Trilogy VHS tapes, and pretend that all of those horrible Prequel films and special editions of the original trilogy never ever existed! I don't care what Lucas says-- Han Solo doesn't get shot at first by Greedo, the Sarlac pit doesn't have a beak, and blowing up small little models of Y-Wings and X-wings with mini pyrotechnic explosives looks way cooler on film than CG created ships and explosions any day!!! So there! And if Lucas, Spielburg, and Ford botch Indy IV or create special editions of the original Indy films I will just ignore those too!
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Post by Ben » March 17th, 2006, 1:48 pm

George Lucas, in talking about Raidrs IV recently, said "We're essentially making the Phantom Menace here".

Now, I know what he meant, but I sure as hell hope not! ;)

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Post by Dacey » March 17th, 2006, 5:41 pm

Jar Jar Binks: MEESA BEING CHASED BY A MOI-MOI BIG ROCK, AAAIIIIEEEE!!!!

(smush)
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Post by ShyViolet » March 20th, 2006, 4:07 pm

George Lucas, in talking about Raidrs IV recently, said "We're essentially making the Phantom Menace here".

Now, I know what he meant, but I sure as hell hope not!

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :x :twisted:


No, please, no!! :(


South Park Kids: There's still good in you, Mr. Lucas. We know there is.
George Lucas: It is too late for me, boys.

:roll:
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by ShyViolet » March 20th, 2006, 4:50 pm

About the prequels, some critics use the excuse that there's less tension because we know how it'll turn out, so it's not Lucas' fault. Uh huh. Everyone knew how Titanic was going to end, but there was plenty of suspense and drama. It's called "good writing."

And the other excuse that Phantom s**ked because it's "the first of a series"? I don't think so. Fellowship of the Ring was the first of a series, EVERONE KNEW it was going to be, but it more than competantly introduced the characters, story, motives, villains, but that didn't make it any less AWESOME. (And didn't stop it from getting a Best Picture nom either.)

Plus, can you imagine if Two Towers had turned out mediocre, (as if) would Peter Jackson have said: "Oh, don't worry, everything gets really good in part III because that's the conclusion"? He would have been thrown out of New Line faster than the time it took audiences to want Jar-Jar Binks dead. :roll:
Guys. What websites are you going to? They're going to make a digital Harrison Ford. He'll look just like Han Solo. They're even going to alter his voice so that he'll still sound like Han Solo, not Grandpa Solo.
How about a digital Harrison Ford circa 1984, Temple of Doom? Hottest Indy EVER. :wink:
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Dacey » March 20th, 2006, 5:35 pm

Am I the only person here who actually *liked* "The Phantom Menace"?



No one has to answer, of course. ;)
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Post by ShyViolet » March 20th, 2006, 5:45 pm

Well, Ewan McGregor looked sure looked good. :oops:

Loved the light-saber duel between him, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul (dumbest name ever! It sounds like a shopping center.) "Duel of the Fates" music almost makes you forget the rest of the movie. (Though not completely, unfortunately.)
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Dacey » March 20th, 2006, 5:55 pm

Well, Padme looked sure looked good, too.

And what were they going to call him, "Horny Guy"? Yipe, that would've made him sound like a reader of Playboy...
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Post by Ben » March 21st, 2006, 3:16 pm

ShyViolet wrote:Darth Maul (dumbest name ever!)
Don't you mean Daft Mule? Eeee-oore!! :)

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Post by ShyViolet » March 21st, 2006, 6:15 pm

Ha ha! :lol:
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Dacey » March 23rd, 2006, 6:27 pm

Thanks for noticing me.
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Post by ShyViolet » May 2nd, 2006, 12:29 am

I actually liked Minority Report but I want my money back for War of the Worlds. Haven't seen Munich.
I think Minority Report has the distinction of being Spielberg's last great film...because you feel his passion there. You feel him having fun....for certain stretches of War of the Worlds, he just seems very bored. Ditto Lost World, Terminal, even a lot of AI.
I think half the time he makes films now he's either trying to convince people he's really an "artiste" and deserved his Oscars, or he's just killing time by making them. Like Ben has said he's run out of places to go. He's picking these obscure projects for lack of anything else.

Funny, the same people who used to call Spielberg a hack back when he was making GREAT films are now kissing his a** by giving him good reviews and nominations for films that are mediocre, repetitive and dare I say it...formulaic. These films would have gotten him filleted back in the 80's. What a world we live in. :roll:

Plus what is with the kids in Spielberg's films now? Is it just me or are they getting INCREDIBLY annoying? Dakota Fanning was good in WOTW but she was also a little brat ("you should get TiVo" and "I'm allergic to peanut butter!") So was the teenage boy. And other than David in A.I. the kids were nasty and cruel. It seems like Spielberg has a very different view on childhood than he used to.
Pinky, are you pondering what I’m pondering?

I think so, Brain, but if we didn’t have ears, wouldn’t we sort of look like weasels?

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Post by Ben » May 2nd, 2006, 10:42 am

I think it may just be him getting older and his perception of seeing that's how kids are today...?

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