Popeye the Sailor Man
Bad news about Popeye Volume 2, 1938-1940. 31 cartoons, two-disc set. $35. 6/17 release date. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocen ... mytwocents
I guess WB felt it couldn't sell more than 2-discs... I sure know by some comments that people were put off by the price-point ($65 MSRP, usually around $50-$55 on-sale first week of release) on the original set.
Well, if you to have it cheaper, buy the set the FIRST week of release OR get it online cheaper, OR wait for X-Mas and ask for it as a gift!
I imagine Popeye Volume 2 will be easy to find for $25 come June.
I know the Tom & Jerry 2-disc sets don't generally sell for more than $20 at most discount stores (Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart).
I guess WB felt it couldn't sell more than 2-discs... I sure know by some comments that people were put off by the price-point ($65 MSRP, usually around $50-$55 on-sale first week of release) on the original set.
Well, if you to have it cheaper, buy the set the FIRST week of release OR get it online cheaper, OR wait for X-Mas and ask for it as a gift!
I imagine Popeye Volume 2 will be easy to find for $25 come June.
I know the Tom & Jerry 2-disc sets don't generally sell for more than $20 at most discount stores (Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart).
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Wow, that leaves fewer than 20 Fleischers left. Bummer. Of ccourse, the only REALLY bad news would be if these weren't coming out at all. But I hate it when they deviate from the path they began on.
And now there's THIS report, which does make things sound a little worse in terms of what to expect in the future.:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Popeye-Volume-2/9048
And here I thought Warner was doing right by these cartoons, but this report makes me have some doubts. Of course, one must take TVSODVD's editorializing with a grain of salt. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
And now there's THIS report, which does make things sound a little worse in terms of what to expect in the future.:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Popeye-Volume-2/9048
And here I thought Warner was doing right by these cartoons, but this report makes me have some doubts. Of course, one must take TVSODVD's editorializing with a grain of salt. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Well, given the condition they were in, I'm buying their "Took longer than we thought", and "Less sales risk for the schedule" stories until I see different--Randall wrote:And now there's THIS report, which does make things sound a little worse in terms of what to expect in the future.:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Popeye-Volume-2/9048
And here I thought Warner was doing right by these cartoons, but this report makes me have some doubts.
At least it puts the Wartime Dan Gordons on their own set, and gets in all the '39-'40 classics where they can be organized.
I'd rather have small sets than see them rush it with DVNR.
We might also see BOTH "Gulliver's Travels" and "Mr. Bug" out on an authorized DVD collection. Looks like Vol. 2 of Popeye is continuing the Fleischer extras trend of the first set.
Of course, there was another "Mr. Bug" DVD release recently but I don't know if that one was anymore authorized than the last DVD.
Of course, there was another "Mr. Bug" DVD release recently but I don't know if that one was anymore authorized than the last DVD.
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DAMMIT!! 
A second set would have basically finished off what I'd have wanted. C'mon guys, how about a three-disc that wraps up the Flieschers!
Poor sales is obviously the catalyst here...what a shame! I picked mine up during release week for $45...not bad.
I truly hope the TV cartoons' bad sales don't reflect on things. It's the classic stuff we want, and they're stretching this off now. I guess I would go for a third collection to finish the Flieschers and get a smattering of Famous - and I'm sure glad Aladdin is included - but it's clear that old black and white cartoons are not luring people in, despite their genius.
Funny that the preview for Vol 2 doesn't even show at least one shot from Aladdin, making it look <I>all</I> black and white.
Real shame...
A second set would have basically finished off what I'd have wanted. C'mon guys, how about a three-disc that wraps up the Flieschers!
Poor sales is obviously the catalyst here...what a shame! I picked mine up during release week for $45...not bad.
I truly hope the TV cartoons' bad sales don't reflect on things. It's the classic stuff we want, and they're stretching this off now. I guess I would go for a third collection to finish the Flieschers and get a smattering of Famous - and I'm sure glad Aladdin is included - but it's clear that old black and white cartoons are not luring people in, despite their genius.
Funny that the preview for Vol 2 doesn't even show at least one shot from Aladdin, making it look <I>all</I> black and white.
Real shame...
I don't know that it's the B & W that kept people away from Popeye Vol. 1, Ben -- although I HAVE met my fair share of idiots who WON'T watch or listen to anything old including B & W movies. Heck, I work with a younger guy who's very closeminded to these things, but he's a dip at any rate.
I just find these past 2 or generations of people who've graduated high school since my time to be very ignorant of not only history but their national pop culture. If it's pre-Britney pre-Matrix the morons just don't care. Good luck getting these guys to read anything but PerezHilton or New Age regularly.
I still think the reasons why some of these animation sets haven't sold well are
A) price point -- who wants to pay $45 or $65 for old cartoons? They're too expensive for casual fans and anybody who doesn't have a well-paying job;
B) lack of advertising for the sets; all the advertising is print-advertising; hardly anything gets advertised on TV and much of the web advertising is ephemeral;
C) the lack of public exposure to these shorts over the past 25 years... I'm serious, a lot of these cartoons haven't been shown much in public over the past 25 years as corporations have consolidated film vaults and short-sighted programmers and politically correct twits have yanked everything except the most inane series and newer product off the air. I really think this is the biggest killer for sales.
Listen, I love Spongebob but that show doesn't have to have every episode rerun 5 times a day on three different channels! Why can't Viacom, Disney, or WB make room on their existing cable channels to show the older classics? Again, shortsightedness, unfamiliarity with characters, and people being put in charge of product they don't care for is what has killed the classic animation market for the past 15 years.
Classic Animation used to be platinum seller on VHS but that was back in the era when many things were still being shown on TV or it was only about a five years since buyers had seen the cartoons they were buying on VHS. Now, we've get 10-, 15-, and 20-plus year gaps for many fans since they've seen films and I'm afraid this has affected DVD sales of these collections.
I just find these past 2 or generations of people who've graduated high school since my time to be very ignorant of not only history but their national pop culture. If it's pre-Britney pre-Matrix the morons just don't care. Good luck getting these guys to read anything but PerezHilton or New Age regularly.
I still think the reasons why some of these animation sets haven't sold well are
A) price point -- who wants to pay $45 or $65 for old cartoons? They're too expensive for casual fans and anybody who doesn't have a well-paying job;
B) lack of advertising for the sets; all the advertising is print-advertising; hardly anything gets advertised on TV and much of the web advertising is ephemeral;
C) the lack of public exposure to these shorts over the past 25 years... I'm serious, a lot of these cartoons haven't been shown much in public over the past 25 years as corporations have consolidated film vaults and short-sighted programmers and politically correct twits have yanked everything except the most inane series and newer product off the air. I really think this is the biggest killer for sales.
Listen, I love Spongebob but that show doesn't have to have every episode rerun 5 times a day on three different channels! Why can't Viacom, Disney, or WB make room on their existing cable channels to show the older classics? Again, shortsightedness, unfamiliarity with characters, and people being put in charge of product they don't care for is what has killed the classic animation market for the past 15 years.
Classic Animation used to be platinum seller on VHS but that was back in the era when many things were still being shown on TV or it was only about a five years since buyers had seen the cartoons they were buying on VHS. Now, we've get 10-, 15-, and 20-plus year gaps for many fans since they've seen films and I'm afraid this has affected DVD sales of these collections.
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Yep, very much agreed.
But I would suspect that some of these sales are based on people picking up such sets "because it's a cartoon". Popeye, bless him, isn't the power-seller he used to be - agreed because he's not on TV much anymore - and this particular set had too much against it in its' favor:
Character recognition: pretty narrow, <I>considering</I>.
Prince point: they've gone for the Looney Tunes pricing but without the characters and variety to back that up.
Black and white: with the "elitist" pricing, this just isn't going to attract casual fans or those looking to see what the fuss is about.
The biggest mistake with Vol 2, apart from my own preferences, is that they're not finishing up the Fliescher films. They should add a third disc and be done.
But I would suspect that some of these sales are based on people picking up such sets "because it's a cartoon". Popeye, bless him, isn't the power-seller he used to be - agreed because he's not on TV much anymore - and this particular set had too much against it in its' favor:
Character recognition: pretty narrow, <I>considering</I>.
Prince point: they've gone for the Looney Tunes pricing but without the characters and variety to back that up.
Black and white: with the "elitist" pricing, this just isn't going to attract casual fans or those looking to see what the fuss is about.
The biggest mistake with Vol 2, apart from my own preferences, is that they're not finishing up the Fliescher films. They should add a third disc and be done.
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I see our rage has put us in "Crusade" mode to go down with the ship on the "They don't want him anymore!!Ben wrote:Character recognition: pretty narrow, <I>considering</I>.
Prince point: they've gone for the Looney Tunes pricing but without the characters and variety to back that up.
Black and white: with the "elitist" pricing, this just isn't going to attract casual fans or those looking to see what the fuss is about..
" Martyrdom idea, no matter how many rational alternative points are raised in the thread--Oh, well: Have fun, and for sake of the forum, try to burn it off quickly, shall we?
I, OTOH, repeat earlier "Hey, YOU try restoring them!" point raised earlier, along with a new appreciation that Warner has a LOT on its plate at this exact moment:
Between restoring 60 Popeye cartoons for DVD, and only restoring 30 of them for the "old disks", while the rest of the lab restores Oz, Gigi, How the West Was Won and Dirty Harry for Blu-ray, I'm no Warner exec, but hell yeah, I know "sacrifice" when I see it.
And as much as I want my Popeye-and-Shorty toons in hand (all the way to the Bitter End), part of me wants my Looney Tunes On Blu set, too. I'm surprised Warner is even still making DVD sets, but I can appreciate their "social standing" at the moment.
(As for Gulliver and Hoppity, they're a bit, um....off-topic, but emphasizes that Warner wants to build an entire Fleischer Museum out of the Popeye sets--
And, like the Fleischer Supermans turning up on Warner's Christopher Reeve box, I rejoice when ANY Public-domain orphan can find a restored-print home with a real studio.)
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Call me a heretic,
But I honestly believe that Blu-Ray and Standard Def DVD can co-exist for at least another 2-5 years. I'd daresay it'll be closer to TEN years before we see a real home video switch to hi-def.
Also, call me nuts when I say that I DON'T believe much of the older TV and film material actually warrants an immediate re-release in Blu-Ray, either.
If it's already a niche title, there's no point in spending the money to remaster it in hi-def. Most animation releases, unfortunately, are niche titles.
I hate to say this, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea to release Walt Disney Treasures or Looney Tunes sets in Blu-Ray any time soon. If anything, having the old films in higher resolution is only going to reveal more of the defects and aging in the films and frankly most people won't buy them on Blu-Ray. There's such a low audience for it already as there is.
It makes more sense to put that hi-def money into more recent films that take better advantage of the technology as well as the Disney feature classics.
Rocky & Bullwinkle is NOT going to look better in hi-def. Star Trek: TOS really hasn't improved with hi-def. Most animated TV shows of the past 40-odd years including every American TV series I'm aware and 99% of the Japanese product will NOT improve in HD, either.
I have no plans to rebuy most of my animation DVD collection any time soon in Blu-Ray. I will upgrade on Disney titles if I see benefits and extras that I like on the Blu-Ray releases but I honestly don't think I'd rebuy most boxsets that have been released in standard def in new Blu-Ray releases unless there's substantially improved remastering on the theatrical shorts.
Again, anything made specifically for TV just isn't going to get improved by HD technology. So hang onto to your Justice League, Batman, and Superman sets in addition to the H-B sets, Ren & Stimpy, and Rocky & Bullwinkle. What's on DVD already is probably as good as those shows will ever look on home video.
But I honestly believe that Blu-Ray and Standard Def DVD can co-exist for at least another 2-5 years. I'd daresay it'll be closer to TEN years before we see a real home video switch to hi-def.
Also, call me nuts when I say that I DON'T believe much of the older TV and film material actually warrants an immediate re-release in Blu-Ray, either.
If it's already a niche title, there's no point in spending the money to remaster it in hi-def. Most animation releases, unfortunately, are niche titles.
I hate to say this, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea to release Walt Disney Treasures or Looney Tunes sets in Blu-Ray any time soon. If anything, having the old films in higher resolution is only going to reveal more of the defects and aging in the films and frankly most people won't buy them on Blu-Ray. There's such a low audience for it already as there is.
It makes more sense to put that hi-def money into more recent films that take better advantage of the technology as well as the Disney feature classics.
Rocky & Bullwinkle is NOT going to look better in hi-def. Star Trek: TOS really hasn't improved with hi-def. Most animated TV shows of the past 40-odd years including every American TV series I'm aware and 99% of the Japanese product will NOT improve in HD, either.
I have no plans to rebuy most of my animation DVD collection any time soon in Blu-Ray. I will upgrade on Disney titles if I see benefits and extras that I like on the Blu-Ray releases but I honestly don't think I'd rebuy most boxsets that have been released in standard def in new Blu-Ray releases unless there's substantially improved remastering on the theatrical shorts.
Again, anything made specifically for TV just isn't going to get improved by HD technology. So hang onto to your Justice League, Batman, and Superman sets in addition to the H-B sets, Ren & Stimpy, and Rocky & Bullwinkle. What's on DVD already is probably as good as those shows will ever look on home video.
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List of extras for V.2... Dang it. Even though it sounds great, I'm very dissapointed Gulliver got axed. True it puts off doubts about the set having 'flippers' or being crammed, but... I love the film, a lot, and loathe the copy I have now. It's to be expected, since it's a public domain toon, but yeash, ugly! Maybe in the future...
In the meantime, I'm also bummed about the set being trimmed down to a 2-discer. But like it was said, I'm just happy Popeye is continuing, especially if the quality stays the same.
Hopefully BB gives Popeye the tin treatment again!
Even though it sounds great, I'm very dissapointed Gulliver got axed. True it puts off doubts about the set having 'flippers' or being crammed, but... I love the film, a lot, and loathe the copy I have now. It's to be expected, since it's a public domain toon, but yeash, ugly! Maybe in the future...In the meantime, I'm also bummed about the set being trimmed down to a 2-discer. But like it was said, I'm just happy Popeye is continuing, especially if the quality stays the same.
Hopefully BB gives Popeye the tin treatment again!
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Here's what I replied to the Cartoon Brew talkbacks:
I was very surprised to read that the full Gulliver’s Travels feature would be included here, especially with the set dropping two of its platters to just two discs. In fact, considering this, I was actually alarmed at the thought of squashing in an entire feature on top of what was expected to be a great bonus package. So I’m actually very, very glad it’s been dropped.
I’d love to see a double bill disc with Gulliver teamed with Mr Bug Goes To Town. A natural inclusion would be the Out Of The Inkwell: Fleischer Story documentary scheduled for this disc too…who wouldn’t buy that as a set, or even as a single disc? The six Gabby cartoons wouldn’t go amiss, either, making up roughly four hours of total content - just enough for a dual-layered DVD.
The best Gulliver’s Travels out there right now is the 60th Anniversary (I can’t believe I’m about to say this) Winstar release (Amazon: B00000JS6T), which was actually color graded at Disney, among other companies involved. This includes a good video based restoration (with Paramount logos) and a couple of Gabby shorts, and it DOES feature the original, untouched mono soundtrack as an option.
Mr Bug was issued, as someone said above, by Republic in a great looking LaserDisc edition (they also put out the Gabby cartoons separately, but with the same cover theming). NTA front title, but a gorgeous transfer that looks like the WB shorts they’re putting out now. A previous DVD was a bootleg, ripped from this LD, but the new edition, under the terrible title Bugville, appears to be from Legend Films (Amazon: B000ZIZX4K), who usually do good, respectful work on their archive titles (check out legendfilms.net, though it seems to be down right now). Apart from the title, obviously, here, it could be a pretty faithful release and I’d be interested to hear what folks think.
Both these films certainly deserve much more than bonus status. An “official” release of Gulliver’s Travels with Mr Bug/Hoppity Goes To Town, with the Fleischer doc and the Gabby shorts would be a heck of a selling point and cover the feature film and associated output of this fantastic studio in one fantastic release.