Fave Star Trek film?

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 1st, 2006, 9:43 pm

I'd probably say The Undiscovered Country, then Wrath of Kahn, then First Contact.
How about you?

Star Trek: The Motion Picture: I saw this years ago when I was little. I didn't understand one thing and the bald lady scared me. (j/k

)

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn: LOVE this movie, loved it when I first saw it, love it still. Ricardo Mantalban may have overplayed it a bit: ("From hell's heart...I stab at thee!") but I still thought he was great. The score by James Horner is also amazing...and both William Shatner and Nimoy do a wonderful job. (yes, even with "KAHHHHHHHHNNNNNN!!!!") I used to have the paperback novel which was great too.

Star Trek III: The Search for Spock: Saw this before I saw II. The story isn't the greatest but it's cool to see the crew in action. I hated how they killed off Kirk's son David (what was that about??) and Christopher Lloyd overacts a lot as the head Klingon. Plus I think Kirstie Alley was doing Cheers by then, so she didn't come back as Saavick, so they pulled an Elizabeth Shue on her. (replaced her with another actress) Once again good James Horner score, and a cool appearance by Spock's dad Sareck. But overall, nothing really happens here except the crew trying to find Spock on the Genesis planet. They find him, and the movie's over.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home: Great movie, very funny, sweet. Kirk and crew stuck in the 1980s!

Ha ha.

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier: I know everyone said this was terrible, but I read the book before I saw the film, which was excellent. Then I saw the film, which was pretty weak. I still love the book, though. Basically, Spock's insane half-brother hijacks the Enterprise so he can meet G-d. Shatner directed too.

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country: LOVE this film, a classic. Love the score and Shatner actually does a pretty restrained job as Kirk, for once. Really excellent, especially General Chang and a cameo by Christian Slater of all people. (from what I hear he's a huge sci-fi geek)

Star Trek: Generations Picard meets Kirk in a worm hole or a Nexis or something like that. Otherwise not so great. Data finally gets the emotion chip, which is actually a bit freaky.

Star Trek: First Contact: I love this film and its comparisons to Moby Dick. It's very well directed by Johanthan Frakes. The only thing I don't like is that I always thought the Borg were pretty lame. I'd much rather have a movie about Q or something. Never the less,it was good. Also those implied sexual scenes with Data (yes, Data) were interesting if a bit...weird.

Star Trek:Insurrection: Frakes did a competant job directing but the story's weak and the special effects terrible. Basically an overlong episode, like Generations.

Star Trek:Nemesis: The only one I haven't seen so far, but I heard Lor's in it (he's one of my favorites) so I'll probably watch it soon.

Post by **Randall** » October 1st, 2006, 10:39 pm

Star Trek: TMP - almost a very good film in its theatrical incarnation, and I think it does get there on the DVD version, which pretty much fixed pacing and SFX problems

ST II - Everyone loves this one, though it's only my second or third favorite

ST III - mediocre, but essential to watch as part of the II-IV "trilogy"; fun at times but also sad; as ShyVi said, once they find Spock the movie just kinda ends

ST IV - oddball entry that everyone seems to love; just "OK" to me

ST V - I didn't like it when I saw it in theaters, then years passed before I caught in again on DVD--- and I didn't hate it; it gets a little too cute, and that fan dance by Uhura is, well, weird; but the movie does actually have some good stuff in it, including Kirk's "I need my pain!" speech

*** ST VI - This one's my favorite, a cool allegory for the end of the Cold War, and much of the cast gets a chance to shine in their swan song; the only part I didn't like was the whole Klingon Shakespeare thing

ST Gen - ugh; terrible end for Kirk, dopey holodeck stuff, and weak script overall

ST FC - wonderful fun, in my top 3

ST Insur - mediocre; suffers from ST:TNG "cutesies"

ST Nem - not as terrible as its box office receipts would suggest, but just wrong on too many levels; Lore is actually forgotten, and the dune buggy scene is just silly; still, there are some good scenes here

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 3rd, 2006, 2:16 pm

*** ST VI - This one's my favorite, a cool allegory for the end of the Cold War, and much of the cast gets a chance to shine in their swan song; the only part I didn't like was the whole Klingon Shakespeare thing

Yeah, I know. Like: "You haven't read Hamlet until you've read it in the original Klingon." Oh-kay.....

Some guys I used to know liked to make fun of General Chang sometimes: "Don't wait for the translation! Don't wait for the translation!!" Ha ha.

including Kirk's "I need my pain!" speech

Yeah, I liked that too. Also, I love how Kirk says: "Don't you know? Aren't you G-d?"

Plus, that whole thing with Spock's shame over being half-human (as opposed to his brother Sybok who's all Vulcan) and Dr. McCoy's grief and guilt over his dad's death make A LOT more sense when you read the book.

And there are other very important characters who barely appear in the film. Also, you learn a LOT more about Sybok and why he's so messed up in the first place....although his character is still pretty mysterious.

It's almost like the book was written beforehand. I suppose a ton of scenes were cut out, then expounded upon in the book. (Kinda like the missing footage of Batman Forever)

Post by **Ben** » October 3rd, 2006, 2:37 pm

I'd pretty much go along with that, though - gasp! - I actually really liked Generations!

I don't know why, but I guess it's the first time a Trek film actually felt like a major motion picture as opposed to another in a franchise, and it played more like a stand alone film.

I...still haven't seen the Director's Cut but have heard it's pacier.

II is great, but I do kind of like III over it, though agree that IV is "meh"...it certainly didn't really get me involved and has dated badly.

V is one of those bad films that I keep ending up seeing some place or the other and it's almost become ingrained even though I know VI is better.

Love First Contact...a lot of good material in there.

HATED how they "forgot" Lore in X/Nemesis...large, large chunks of that film just didn't make any linear sense.

Still, a vastly enjoyable franchise. I hope the rumored re-boot does the job well.

--------------------------

As for me stuck here in the old country, how did those HD remasters of TOS turn out? The trailer they had online didn't do them any favors - I actually thought the new ones were soft looking and lost picture information cropped from all sides.

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 3rd, 2006, 2:45 pm

I'd pretty much go along with that, though - gasp! - I actually really liked Generations!

I guess I can see that, in a way, (Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Kahn were the only "independent" stories of the old crew) But to me Generations felt A LOT like a long episode of TNG. (Insurrection had that feeling too, but not as much due to Frakes' direction, even with the poor story. )

I guess Generations had some interesting things, but I HATE that opening scene on the Holodeck when they're on the Pirate ship or whatever it is. TNG humor=bad.

Post by **Dacey** » October 3rd, 2006, 5:19 pm

Do any of you guys have the boxed set with Two-Disc editions of all ten films? Man, that's a good bargain.

Post by **Ben** » October 3rd, 2006, 5:26 pm

I will say that Kirk's send off was too low key there too, but I liked the overall spirit of Generations waaaay over Insurrection, which was pretty bad. They didn't explore any new themes there than they had in the series, and Frakes really should have given us a couple of really good central sequences, which just weren't there.

Post by **Dacey** » October 3rd, 2006, 5:37 pm

Well, I'm one of those guys who has seen all of the "Star Trek" movies, but not a single episode of the show.

Why does everyone hate "The Final Frontier" so much?

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 4th, 2006, 12:36 am

Too many awkward jokes. Muddled plot. WAY too much time spent on the "new" Enterprise and how dysfunctional it is...bad humor. VERY little time spent on Spock's Vulcan backrond and link with Sybock.

Also....I think some people don't like thinking of Kirk, Spock and McCoy having troubled psyches and whatnot. Although that's the only really interesting thing in the movie.

But...I do like the parts when McCoy, Spock and Kirk sit around the campfire singing "Row, Row, Row your boat". It's also in the book.
And the book is SOOOOOO much better than the film.

Hey WJ: watch the original crew first if you have a chance.

I think it's airing on G4 now. They have some AMAZING stories that in my opinion beat the heck out of ST:TNG (although I like a few of theirs)
I think my two favorite episodes would probably be "The Enemy Within" and "City on the Edge of Forever".

Also, I like that famous one with the Parallel universe and alternate Spock having a beard...that's been imitated in both Futurama and South Park--VERY funny each time.

GeorgeC · Post by **GeorgeC** » October 4th, 2006, 1:09 am

I've actually seen one of the remastered TOS episodes recently.

Although I don't have a high-def TV set, I definitely noticed an improvement in the quality of the live-action footage. However, the CGI of the Enterprise and other starships leaves a lot to be desired. The CGI TOS Enterprise model is fairly bland in detail, is poorly lit, and not animated very well at all. Granted, the intention was to recreate the original FX shots (perhaps TOO literally) but I've seen fan CGI that looks at least 5 times better than this!

Mind you, this is all based on one episode viewing but it's a fairly good episode to judge the quality of the CGI by... I saw a broadcast of the HD-enhanced "Balance of Terror" (the episode where Kirk has a battle of wits with a Romulan starship commander in the Federation/Romulan Neutral Zone).

The episode's drama holds up as well as the first time I saw it... Too bad the retooled effects weren't all they were hyped to be.

******************

Favorite Star Trek movies ---

II, VI, and III...

II has the best drama and starship combat. Still can't beat Montalban for charisma and over-the-top madness as a villain so far.

VI is the next best with the next best villain of the series (Christopher Plummer's General Chang), one of Shatner's best performances in the series, and very good exterior shots of the Enterprise as it "flies by" the camera. I also thought the Enterprise bridge set NEVER looked better than it did in this film. Overall, it's still the best film representation of the Enterprise that I've seen.

III is probably the next most heartfelt movie in the series for me simply because of the abrupt murder of David Marcus and the destruction of the original Enterprise (which I DIDN'T see coming)!

As for the other original cast films, they all have their good points, BUT are a bit weak in direction (V), plod along at a snail's pace (I), are too derivative of older TV episode plotlines (I), and have humor that just hasn't aged well (IV).

These opinions stated, I'll take a TOS cast film over ANY of the TNG cast films any day of the week. The TNG films just do not hold a candle to the genuine warmth and charisma that the TOS cast films radiate. The TNG film series was doomed from the start by the fact that the WRONG SCRIPT was shot for their first film! Shoulda been "All Good Things...", Paramount. Instead, the TNG execs had to piss off BOTH TOS fans (by killing off Kirk in such an ignominous manner) and TNG fans by destroying the TNG Enterprise with such a lackluster script. That was an even worse way to start a new film series than Episode I, Paramount!

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 4th, 2006, 1:47 am

I guess no one's going to mention DS9 or Voyager...

I used to watch DS9 sometimes, but it was even weaker than TNG, which is pretty bad to say the least.* I never watched Voyager, or Enterprise for that matter.

*Their best episode was,a rip-off of TOS: Alternate Universe, where Odo is evil! GASP! My fave character was Dr. Julian Bashir, whom I got to see at a Sci-Fi Convention at one point. I even got to ask him a question!

(Also saw Odo I think)

But I definetly agree that there was SO much more humanity and compelling stories with TOS.

(BTW Michael Eisner and Jeffrey Katzenberg were hugely responsible for the making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture while at Paramount. Eisner thought the original series was ridiculous, and couldn't understand why they couldn't just make the movie without Nimoy--who wouldn't return at first due to being disenchanted with Star Trek in general, sick of his typecasting as Spock, and his apparent hatred towards Gene Roddenberry, . wink: )

Post by **Ben** » October 4th, 2006, 9:12 am

GeorgeC wrote:The TNG films just do not hold a candle to the genuine warmth and charisma that the TOS cast films radiate.

Very, very true. There's something cosy about flying out on the Enterprise with Kirk at the helm.

Sounds like I needn't get excited over the "enhanced" TOS, which is what I was expecting. Those shows look great on the current (but too expensive) DVDs and from what I have seen, the new additions don't really bring the shows "up to date" but merely have CGI mimicking the older effects.

ST:TOS was great for a reason in its day, and it should be remembered for what it was.

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 5th, 2006, 2:52 pm

ST:TOS was great for a reason in its day, and it should be remembered for what it was.

They used to show it in Israel ALL the time. (with subtitles) This was pre-cable days.

Post by **ShyViolet** » November 30th, 2006, 10:05 pm

Are they still planning on making another Trek, with Kirk and Spock as younger guys?

As for the other original cast films, they all have their good points, BUT are a bit weak in direction (V), plod along at a snail's pace (I), are too derivative of older TV episode plotlines (I), and have humor that just hasn't aged well (IV).

Yeah looking back I guess The Voyage Home wasn't so great, but hearing Chekov go: "Nuclear Vessles!" is still funny every time.

I also liked the plot with Whales communicating with aliens, but they didn't spend all that much time on it or expained what it really was. The time-traveling thing is somewhat lame and the sequence totally rips off 2001.

Plus the whole thing with Spock acting weird and Kirk saying he was a stoner on "LDS" is pretty dumb but...funny in a stupid way. I also like the scene with Dr. McCoy arguing with a 20th-century doctor and saying "What is this, the Dark Ages?" IMO this is still funny today!

Post by **Ben** » December 1st, 2006, 12:16 am

ShyViolet wrote:Are they still planning on making another Trek, with Kirk and Spock as younger guys?

As far as anyone knows, it's in the hands of JJ Abrams, but it's all under wraps right now.