The Princess and the Frog

Post by **Ben** » October 10th, 2007, 2:14 pm

It shouldn't be, but the fact is that it has taken a long time for there to be one.

The earliest princesses from the classic fairy tales (Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Ariel, Belle) are arguably European (with American accents!), while we've since had Middle Eastern (Jasmine, the closest we've got to a "Jewish Princess" if you listen to one of the deleted songs!), Native-American (Pocahontas) and even Asian Chinese (Mulan).

With all the diversity, we should be seeing such a princess, since otherwise there's a heck of a big hole there. And I think it's a bold move to bring back Disney animation like this and make that a feature of the film. It says "hey, we're back" but it also says that they're not just doing the same old white European thing...they're bringing something new and - as most would agree - something long overdue, to the mix.

Giselle in Enchanted is like the throwback to that "old age", while Tiana is the new and improved Disney forging things ahead. This is also why I believe Rapunzel will work wonders in CGI...we've basically seen what that could have been like in 2D, and having a master like Glen Keane trying something like this out in a new medium is going to bring the originality to it that's been missing in recent Disney fare.

I'm all for it!

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 11th, 2007, 8:40 am

Oh,i see

and Ariel is a mermaid,not European (she lives and sea but i don't know if it's Denemark).
What deleted song show Jasmine as a jewish?

.

Post by **Ben** » October 11th, 2007, 8:56 am

Hey OUAD, there's no need to quote an entire long message when you're directly replying to it. I've taken it out of your post above.

Ariel is a mermaid...well spotted! But she's clearly not American and not from any ethnic region either! Looking at the time the film is set and the production and costume design, it's very obvious that there's the usual pan-European influence going on that places the story in a similar setting to Disney's earlier fairytales. Therefore The Little Mermaid is a European set story, probably set in a fictional Denmark, but not one that is referred to by name. Since there are a variety of English speaking characters, it could also be reasoned that Eric's kingdom, and villain Ursula herself, are in fact English. It's certainly set in those waters between the two countries.

The original version of Aladdin featured an Ashman/Menken composition entitled "Call Me A Princess", which was intended for Jasmine to sing back when she was being portrayed as rich and spoiled. The lyrics gently mock the "Jewish Princess" stereotypes, for which Ashman was well known for in his wordplay (also see "God Bless You, Mr Rosewater" and "Little Shop Of Horrors").

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 11th, 2007, 11:04 am

Oh,okay

thanks for fixing altought my siggy disappeared from there

.
Oh,so Ariel is European and i think then it's Denemark.
So... it's a racsit deleted song

.

Post by **Ben** » October 11th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Um...no.

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 11th, 2007, 1:56 pm

Ben wrote:Um...no.

You said it's Jewish streotyps,then it is racist.

Post by **Whippet Angel** » October 11th, 2007, 10:32 pm

Uh... It seems like you're a bit confused about the difference between racism and stereotyping.
They are not the same thing.

With all the diversity, we should be seeing such a princess, since otherwise there's a heck of a big hole there. And I think it's a bold move to bring back Disney animation like this and make that a feature of the film. It says "hey, we're back" but it also says that they're not just doing the same old white European thing...they're bringing something new and - as most would agree - something long overdue, to the mix.

Ben, you always have this uncanny ability to say exactly what I'm thinking, but with much better wording!!

Post by **Ben** » October 12th, 2007, 4:00 am

'tis ma jawb!

Yep, racist comments and racial stereotyping are different beasts, especially when the guy doing the stereotyping is of the origin for the butt of the jokes and it is clear the intention is comedic. There's nothing "racist" about "Call Me A Princess"; it was cut from the film when Jasmine needed to be more feisty and warm towards Aladdin's situation.

Post by **EricJ** » October 12th, 2007, 6:06 am

Ben wrote:It shouldn't be, but the fact is that it has taken a long time for there to be one.

...Yeah, it's been, what, six years since "Atlantis"?

(Or does Atlantean origin not count, even when the character has a black voice actress?)

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 12th, 2007, 6:10 am

Ben wrote:'tis ma jawb!

Yep, racist comments and racial stereotyping are different beasts, especially when the guy doing the stereotyping is of the origin for the butt of the jokes and it is clear the intention is comedic. There's nothing "racist" about "Call Me A Princess"; it was cut from the film when Jasmine needed to be more feisty and warm towards Aladdin's situation.

Oh,okay

,then i guess it's allright

.

Post by **Ben** » October 12th, 2007, 8:03 am

Well, Atlantean isn't exactly what we're talking about here, black voice artist or not. There have been countless black vocalists in Disney cartoons, but Atlantis truly was set in a somewhat mythical kingdom and Kida wasn't exactly in the classic princess mold. Then again, we'll have to wait and see how Tiana fits in too...can't think of any New Orleans royalty at turn of the century America!

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 12th, 2007, 11:12 am

Ben wrote:Well, Atlantean isn't exactly what we're talking about here, black voice artist or not. There have been countless black vocalists in Disney cartoons, but Atlantis truly was set in a somewhat mythical kingdom and Kida wasn't exactly in the classic princess mold. Then again, we'll have to wait and see how Tiana fits in too...can't think of any New Orleans royalty at turn of the century America!

Kida is not a Disney Princess (her movie was a failure and a lot of people (incolding me) dislike this movie),she can be royalty somehow,maybe she can be like Belle and Cinderella (a princess by marrige).

Post by **Ben** » October 12th, 2007, 12:26 pm

OUAD...I have asked you before not to quote a message if you are replying directly below it. This is getting ridiculous.

And please reply when you have something unique to say...just agreeing with everyone all the time is going to get priiiiiiiity boring!

Thanks.

Post by **Once Upon A Dream** » October 12th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Okay but i didn't agreed with anyone!

.

Post by **ShyViolet** » October 12th, 2007, 4:38 pm

There's nothing "racist" about "Call Me A Princess"; it was cut from the film when Jasmine needed to be more feisty and warm towards Aladdin's situation.

Yeah, it sounds like a typically witty Ashman-esque type of song. (And it kinda makes sense too, since he was Jewish as well, although it doesn't really matter.)