Tintin

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Re: Tintin

Post by Bill1978 » December 26th, 2011, 3:56 pm

Didn't Alvin open in 2nd place behind Sherlock Holmes

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Post by EricJ » December 26th, 2011, 7:49 pm

Well, that also brings up an interesting point:
We could just be looking at the Fallacy of Friday Numbers--Every animated movie "flops" on the first Friday numbers, because no parent EVER takes their kids to an evening kids' movie on Friday night...By the time the Saturday and Sunday afternoon matinee numbers kick in, the results are often a little different.

Caught the 4pm show this afternoon, and the theater was packed. Packed.
(Of course, helps that it was also "Mega Monday", as our new craze for commercializing shopping days as rituals calls it, it was the second biggest day of the year for shopping malls, and most movies were sold out that day.) Audience even applauded at the end. :D
Which definitely boosts up the theory that those who actually were going to a theater on Christmas weekend headed for the known quantities (Alvin, Sherlock, M:I with Cruise), and waiting for word-of-mouth/reviews. While a week of school vacation cabin-fever makes parents a little more adventurous.

(And yes, Bill, saw that episode of Amazing Race, too--Before the movie came out, no one had a CLUE why Charlie Chaplin should be talking to Conan O'Brien.) ;)

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Post by laughingoctopus » December 26th, 2011, 7:58 pm

I'm still on the fence about this one. I'm not a fan of non-stop action and not much story or character development, which is exactly what people say this film is.

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Post by EricJ » December 26th, 2011, 8:37 pm

It's certainly non-stop action, with more than a little bit of "Indy with substituted characters", but more in the spirit of "What Crystal Skull SHOULD have been".
It's got the playful sense of humor that Spielberg uses when he's personally invested in a project, and that's one thing most of his action movies haven't had for a while.

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Re:

Post by ELIOLI » December 26th, 2011, 10:09 pm

laughingoctopus wrote:I'm still on the fence about this one. I'm not a fan of non-stop action and not much story or character development, which is exactly what people say this film is.
You will never know until you see it! I have missed a lot of good films in theaters because of critics and just being my skeptical self.
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Post by laughingoctopus » December 26th, 2011, 10:10 pm

I think I will give it a chance after all. After War Horse of course. :)

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Post by ELIOLI » December 26th, 2011, 10:15 pm

:)

...and according to Box Office Mojo, the domestic total so far is $24,107,000 .

Pretty much on par for a movie that was realeased at the time with a lot of better than usual movies, and it has increased greatly over the course of a couple of days. Australia's opening still hasn't shown up yet, most likely by tomorrow, and that will just add up even more for the overall gross!
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Re:

Post by GeorgeC » December 27th, 2011, 12:33 am

Bill1978 wrote:I often find that the US is very snobby about other countries ability to provide entertainment. Every now and then there is an exception eg Harry Potter or Lord Of The Rings. But usually if a non-US idea/film takes off at the box office it is viewed as a curioisty and a one off..
You've gotta take into account vast differences in cultural tastes...
For your generalization to really work, you have to understand that the US is a very large country with a very different POV to many other smaller countries.

Many things that are still common in other countries died out in the US decades if not over a century ago. The differences in technology, religion, education, and personal priorities are not something to be sneezed at -- those gulfs can be huge!

It's very difficult for many Americans to get into British humor because it's much dryer and tends to have a longer build-up time to pay off on jokes... In other words, it's a lot like American humor was 7-8 decades ago!

Much of what I see in other cultures is definitely an acquired taste. It really helps to be a student of history and take classes and read up on other cultures to get insights into why certain phrases and images are put into film. It just makes it much easier to appreciate and understand what's going on... As a teenager, I just couldn't get into Monty Python because I knew very little about British culture in general. Years later, I'd read up on a lot of the Medieval era and being a huge fan of the Arthur epics appreciated MP and the Holy Grail for what it was.

(There's no question that focusing on visual humor helped and by that time I'd seen enough of other similar taste films to not be as shocked by Python in the end... They blazed a trail in a real sense for SNL and were concurrent with the coming and golden age of Mel Brooks, too. Seeing SNL and Mel Brooks' films first helped me appreciate Python later.)

This can also be very true for Japanese films steeped heavily in their pre-Westernization era (prior to the forced cultural opening by the US Navy). Samurai films are neat but most of what's going on in those films is not that understandable unless you do the research or have a handy set of footnotes around to fill you in on the culture as it pops up.

(Animeigo was really good with this on their anime releases; they provided footnotes with oodles of information about what was going on in their licensed anime -- tons of this stuff was relatively minor but clued you in more on Japanese/Asian culture. Haven't seen enough of their "samurai epics" to judge if that tradition has carried on in the bulk of those live-action releases.)

Yeah, American pop culture tends to dominate because it's blasted louder than anything else in the world. It's all very intentional and remember that while the companies that do this ARE American-founded they now tend to be part of international conglomerates, too. They are looking as much to make money outside North America with large budget films; it does tend to result in script changes to make films easier to export. American films do generally get marketed better -- face it, the packaging is very sleek and has a sheen/eye-candy quality that it makes very difficult to not look at. The fact that most films are kept very airy and light on mind-boggling concepts doesn't hurt, either. Human beings as a species tend to be very short-sighted and focused on the here and now; ie, the majority of us aren't that deep of thinkers. Also, when a film is primarily a visual exercise that features common sights anybody can see around the world or in at least larger cities it tends to make these films very easy to export -- that's why the large emphasis on action/adventure and visual sight-gag comedy.

By comparison, what I've seen of independent/art film releases in the US is very subdued and so quiet that it's no wonder 99% of the population isn't aware of these films! Japanese marketing, on the other hand, seems to sometimes emulate American methods and can be brash, too... (At least judging from some of the original trailers included on the anime I've seen.)

With very few exceptions, a lot of smaller foreign studios/markets just aren't interested in marketing their films in the US. They lack the manpower, knowledge of the American market, and many times don't even get assistance from the original film creators in advertising and marketing their films overseas! (Cultural chauvinism cuts both ways; more than a few Japanese filmmakers don't care if their films ever get seen or distributed outside of Asia. Likewise for many other markets I'm sure, too.) Most of the foreign films are brought into the US is by small American distributors founded and run by foreign film fans or expatriates who moved to the US. The Studio Ghibli films, for example, were largely unseen in the US (prior to Disney signing an international distribution deal in the mid-late 1990s) because Tokuma (the main funder in Japan) wasn't interested in or lacked the ability to market these films in the US. The Ghibli films that DID make it to the US market tended to have very short runs and were seen only at film festivals if they were even dubbed to begin with! (The pre-1990s dubs included My Neighbor Totoro, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Only the original Totoro dub was officially released on American home video by 20th Century Fox. The other dubs have appeared on official Japanese releases as well as English-speaking foreign territories.)

For years, the only Ghibli films that could be seen in the States on home video were My Neighbor Totoro (dub supervised by the late Carl Macek), a severely edited version of Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (retitled "Warriors of the Wind:), and Grave of the Fireflies which fit into the sometimes nihilistic marketing choices of the now-defunct Central Park Media. Totoro made it through three home video formats -- VHS, LD, and DVD -- and was an established cult hit even before Disney gained the license to the film. The other two films had far lower print runs on VHS and/or LD and were mainly picked over by hardcore domestic American Ghibli fans who were apt to find fault with anything...

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Re: Re:

Post by EricJ » December 27th, 2011, 4:12 am

...But did you SEE it? :?

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Post by Ben » December 28th, 2011, 8:46 am

Tintin is Belgian. :)

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Post by Randall » December 28th, 2011, 8:48 am

I saw Tintin last night. It was fun, and I enjoyed it, though perhaps not as much as Ben. Lots of excitement in the film, and loads of fun, though not a lot of depth. It definitely falls into the "B-movie/old-time Saturday matinee" area, with a straight-ahead plot and lots of action and slapstick. The Uncanny Valley was largely avoided, but I did feel that the more cartoony elements of the action may have been better served by less realistic looking characters (who were photoreal depsite the caricatured proportions) in order to have all the silliness more acceptable. (Then again, Chaplin managed slapstick fine without being an actual cartoon, so maybe I'm off base here.)

The 3D was apparent, but I'm not sure if I'd need the 3D Blu-ray necessarily. I always get a little excited when I hear that the 3D in a film is "worth it", only to find that it doesn't do much for me while watching the film (and I do see 3D just fine).

The best thing about the film is that it's rekindled my interest in Tintin, so that I'm getting more books, reading the Companion (just reissued), and finding that the old Tintin films are coming available on BD and DVD, if you know how to find them (Quebec and European releases).

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Post by ELIOLI » December 28th, 2011, 3:17 pm

from what I can tell, Jerry Beck, and (pardon me if I offend ) old- timers in the industry seem to hate this film. I can repect the older "knowledgeable" people in animation world,but it ruffles my feathers to see so many dissing this simply because of the technology. Just that. I am mainly refereeing to those who are reluctant to see the film. Their opinion from there is fine once they give it a chance.
I just recently , and by accident, chatted with a voter from the Academy via a facebook status, her stating that "I believe the movie isn't doing good." I replied simply saying that "general favorable reviews and 260,000,000 at the box office, despite domestic audiences, is considered 'not good'?"
She deleted all her comments after I said that and couldn't find her facebook page ever again. This was today. I am not sure if I should mention names, but since I never said anything bad about her, nor will I ever, she is credited as one of the first or second women to be credited in Disney films , I believe.
Woops.. :p
I respect the elders opinions, and I can not force anyone to see and or like a movie, but totally dismissing it because it isn't their idea of what a movie should be is very bothersome to me... (golden days of animation). BUT, I can not do anything about that kind thinking. I just found it very unprofessional that as an academy voter of any sort tells someone they "quit watching it after 40 mins", and didn't at least watch it all the way through, which I believe would have been the right and professional thing to do, especially since you are going to be voting based on what you saw, not just half way through.
I guess also since I am a teenager and I am easy to please my tiny mind, no years experience for any animation studio under my belt, and that I liked Tintin, my opinion is rubbish; I should have said I wasn't looking forward to it and I didn't like it. Alas I did, and I will never be a great esteemed animator or anything in the business, or at least be taken seriously.
Maybe I am too nice and open minded when it comes to watching movies. I guess I don't analyze the positives and negatives before I see a movie.
But hey, I loved Tintin, and I love animation.
Some people have treated this film like it was the plague or something.

geez, sorry for this rant guys, so off topic.
I just hate for any film to be judged so harshly by those who haven't even seen it yet,especially since this was a movie I wasn't sure myself that I was going to like.
But oh well, can't change peoples mindsets.
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Post by estefan » December 28th, 2011, 3:40 pm

I have noticed that the Cartoon Brew crowd that seem to turn their noses at the new film, because of it being motion-capture. I remember hearing a radio interview with Jerry Beck a number of months ago where he was talking about upcoming animated films and he was very dismissive of Tintin, because of the technology used. Never mind it being from a director, writer and a visual effects studio that churn out quality projects again and again. Nope, because it's motion-capture, there is no way it could turn out good. Not surprisingly, when Tintin was released, he gave it a negative review.

Steve Hulett, a former Disney story-man and the head of the Animation Guild has been slightly more positive about the film, though. Part of that is that he does seem to consider motion-capture to be a viable tool and this is coming from a man who represents animators. There is certainly resistance to motion-capture, especially after the Zemeckis mis-fires and it certainly has led to a lot of debate among the animation community. Steven Spielberg, Steve Hulett and Eric Goldberg consider motion-capture to be a form of animation, but James Cameron, Jerry Beck and John Lasseter do not.

However, if there is a studio that knows how to use motion-capture well and has proven that time and time again, it's WETA. To be honest, I actually think they topped their work on Avatar with Tintin. This is a much harder project to pull off than the Na'vi (and those were incredibly impressive), so kudos to them for succeeding so well.

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Re:

Post by EricJ » December 28th, 2011, 6:10 pm

Randall wrote:The best thing about the film is that it's rekindled my interest in Tintin, so that I'm getting more books, reading the Companion (just reissued), and finding that the old Tintin films are coming available on BD and DVD, if you know how to find them (Quebec and European releases).
And I was even inspired to shoot some of my Christmas Amazon money on the 90's Nelvana cartoon, now available on US boxset. :D
http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Tintin ... B005G5NPG0

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Post by Randall » December 28th, 2011, 7:32 pm

I had the Nelvana series already, via the Canadian sets released a few years ago. They're on BD in the UK, actually, though apparently they're cropped to 16:9; but at least the UK set includes Tintin in America, which the North American releases all dropped as far as I know.

I did pick up the Canadian BD set of all 3 previous Tintin animated films (including a compilation of the Belvision TV series), and even a Canadian release of the two 1960s live-action films. All I'm missing is the very first Tintin movie, done with puppets in 1947 (“The Crab with the Golden Claws”). I have found a European release of that one, though, and intend to pick it up. (Yes, I went Region-Free over the holidays. Scooped up the UK BD of Smurfs and the Magic Flute, too. :) )

*************************************

As far as the motion capture debate goes, I sympathize with both sides. I still find it a little bizarro, but Weta certainly does it better than anyone else. I see the motion capture films as interesting experiments, but prefer regular ol' CGI or cel animation (even though I can still enjoy Polar Express, Beowulf, or especially Monster House).

But I agree--- to dismiss a film without seeing it is grossly unfair. And it doesn't matter whether you consider mo-cap to be animation or not. Just enjoy it for what it is, I say. :)
Last edited by Randall on December 28th, 2011, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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