The Golden Compass

Features, Shorts, Live-Action and Direct-To-Video
AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 608
Joined: January 22nd, 2007

Post by Whippet Angel » December 11th, 2007, 11:10 pm

No, I get what you're saying. I was actually thinking the same thing myself. It would have made so much more sense, to use "HIS DARK MATERIALS" in the title. I never did understand why they felt the need to change the title for the US version of the book in the first place. The alethiometer is not a compass, nor is it ever referred to as a compass in the novel (it kinda annoyed me, the way they kept calling it a "compass" throughout the film :? )
Unfortunately Whippet, with an under $30m opening, it seems this is it for His Dark Materials on film, at least for now.
That would be strange, considering the story (like the novel) stops dead at the end of the film (yet another thing that was probably confusing to many people) :P

AV Team
AV Team
Posts: 6634
Joined: February 8th, 2005
Location: The US of A

Post by Dacey » December 12th, 2007, 1:17 pm

Unless you're a fantasy-movie junkie (which I am) or a fan of the book, there is seriously no real reason to see the film. Unless, of course, you want to save a potential franchise for New Line from certain death. ;)
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."

User avatar
AV Founder
AV Founder
Posts: 25294
Joined: October 22nd, 2004
Location: London, UK

Post by Ben » December 12th, 2007, 2:47 pm

WJ, one man <I>can</I> make the difference!


Actually, Whippet, I didn't know the story cut short (presumably to lead into a second one?), but without the prior knowledge that an audience would get that this was "part one", by way of having the "His Dark Materials:" prefix, how else would they (causal viewers) know?

No wonder it's getting bad word of mouth...people don't realise that there should be more to come. Whether there <I>is</I> more to come is probably now down to good DVD sales...

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 1347
Joined: January 23rd, 2006
Location: The Middle of Nowhere

Post by eddievalient » December 12th, 2007, 11:23 pm

See, before the live action-film was announced, I had thought that it would have worked well as an animated film (ideally hand drawn) and could have been done for far less money then they must have spent here, thus increasing the possibility that the whole story could be done. Ah well, spilt milk. I do hope it doesn't become another Eragon (I never saw that one, but was told by a fan that due to the book's length, the filmmakers opted to only do half of it rather than condensing anything and because of the film's lackluster performance it's unlikely we'll get the other half).
The Official Lugofilm Ltd Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/bartsimpson83

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 3845
Joined: May 31st, 2005
Location: Maryland

Post by Meg » December 13th, 2007, 7:13 am

I heard that the ending of the book is cut out completely from the film...Yet the trailer seems to be almost entirely made up of shots from the scenes that were cut!

Since the chances of a sequel aren't looking that great, anyone think they'll include the ending with the DVD as an 'extended edition'?

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 1347
Joined: January 23rd, 2006
Location: The Middle of Nowhere

Post by eddievalient » December 13th, 2007, 8:42 am

I certainly hope so. A lot of people who were/are calling for a boycott of the film did so on the grounds that it would cause people to read the books. On the one hand, with the relatively poor opening weekend it looks like the bashers got their wish, which is both scary and sad. On the other, if there are no more movies than those that enjoyed it will have to read the books to see how the story ends, so the bashers' efforts may ultimately backfire. We'll just have to wait and see how it goes.
The Official Lugofilm Ltd Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/bartsimpson83

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 608
Joined: January 22nd, 2007

Post by Whippet Angel » December 14th, 2007, 3:28 am

Meg wrote:I heard that the ending of the book is cut out completely from the film...Yet the trailer seems to be almost entirely made up of shots from the scenes that were cut!
All of those shots from the trailer were in the film, although a lot of the dialogue was switched around (to make the story look more dramatic, I suppose). Only the last two chapters were cut from the film, but even if they'd left that in, the film still would have ended without a real conclusion (since the first novel kind of ends on a cliff-hanger).

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 27
Joined: August 25th, 2007
Location: Providence

Post by cmoon » December 16th, 2007, 2:32 pm

Saw the film and enjoyed it. Currently reading the books. Doing things in this order definitely reveals how cut down the film is (which isn't necessarily a bad thing.) Honestly I found it a more enjoyable film than Narnia, but that might not be saying too much since I think those are very difficult books to adapt to film to begin with (and upon rereading, one realizes many of the novels are not much more than novellas at best, and often not really well thought out--but that's just my opinion...) The film of Golden Compass was a fun romp if not much more. What do people really want from this sort of film?

Ben> Underlying mythology--to be honest, Tolkien was the only of those lot who I think REALLY pulled that off, and the reason is clearly due to an absurd amount of research that shouldn't really be necessary to tell a good story. Tolkien is far off to one extreme and I think Narnia is off on the other (with years I've come to think less and less of those stories even though I grew up with them.) There has to be a happy medium where you can tell a good story and offer a new, refreshing vision of the world without also making lots of maps, languages, thousands of years of back history, etc.

User avatar
AV Founder
AV Founder
Posts: 25294
Joined: October 22nd, 2004
Location: London, UK

Post by Ben » December 16th, 2007, 3:45 pm

Very true too. This is what I think is hurting Star Wars since Lucas in essentially making it all up and making his "maps, languages, thousands of years of back history" as he goes, filling it all in in retrospect.

Tolkien was the only one to provide the full context. Yes, it may be well over the top, but it's also the reason we believe his world. All too often rules are set up in fantasy epics that then disappear for need of plot progression. I'm always more impressed when a world's rules are set up, that they are logically set out, and then the story adheres to them.

:)

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 27
Joined: August 25th, 2007
Location: Providence

Post by cmoon » December 18th, 2007, 7:16 am

So is it more or less confirmed that this film was killed off by what I'm calling (no offense to be taken please) 'the Christian early warning system' (IE the same one used during Last Temptation of Christ, etc.)? I don't even mean that anyone is to blame if this is true (why would a family that is Christian want to take their kids to a film they had been told was anti-God anyway?)

I mean, the numbers are really kinda shocking. I think every film of this ilk has done at least moderately well, and I don't feel (all are free to disagree) that this was at the bottom of the barrel either. Timing, a strong cast of actors, huge marketing and a movie that didn't suck all should have played together to make at least reasonable profits--which it didn't.

Watching I am Legend break records (a film with some already pretty negative press stack up against it) is enough to make one reconsider anyway just how strong word of mouth can be.

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 3845
Joined: May 31st, 2005
Location: Maryland

Post by Meg » December 18th, 2007, 7:53 am

I don't even mean that anyone is to blame if this is true (why would a family that is Christian want to take their kids to a film they had been told was anti-God anyway?)
My family and I are Roman Catholic - in fact, both of my parents teach a religious education class - but my dad still wants to take us to see it anyway. I also read and enjoyed the first two books in the series.

The books had a good story, and that's always something I can appreciate, even if I don't morally agree with some of the situations that occur.

User avatar
AV Founder
AV Founder
Posts: 25294
Joined: October 22nd, 2004
Location: London, UK

Post by Ben » December 18th, 2007, 8:44 am

Word of mouth is what makes or breaks a film.

Some of the biggest flop openings in history have made more than the biggest openers because they got good WOM. That's also how box-office flops can come back as big videos (or now DVDs) since the few that saw them encourage a rent or purchase for those that didn't.

In reverse cases, if a film doesn't appeal or is confusing (as is, I believe TGC from what I'm hearing), then the film is not going to get a recommendation to other friends out at the bar, or at work, etc. The likelihood is that one person may say they going to see "Film X" this weekend and their workmate/pal says "saw it last week, it was bad, see "Film A" instead".

Friends listen to other friends over reviewers and critics. But sometimes there's no accounting for peoples' tastes! :)

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 1347
Joined: January 23rd, 2006
Location: The Middle of Nowhere

Post by eddievalient » December 18th, 2007, 12:16 pm

I can sense a repeat of the Superman Returns thread brewing. Better get my defense ready after I finally see it (then again, maybe I'm being pessimistic).
The Official Lugofilm Ltd Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/bartsimpson83

AV Forum Member
AV Forum Member
Posts: 27
Joined: August 25th, 2007
Location: Providence

Post by cmoon » December 18th, 2007, 5:19 pm

That's an interesting point about the film being confusing. In truth, I thought the intro alleviated all possible confusion but many people have said they were still confused. Again the complaint has been about the daemons which I found very intuitive (interestingly enough, the book doesn't even bother to explain them except piece-meal as need dictates.) Really, I found the film very straightforward, but that doesn't mean the problem isn't there.

I guess I've also been thinking about a problem. I am still imagining that if I was a believer myself and felt a film was trying to attack my beliefs and aimed at children, I might see that as a problematic thing. HOWEVER, the books are YA or if you prefer, targeted at adolescents. This IS the rebellious age when just about everything you do is to defy your parents. To suggest a book which -may- challenge Christian thinking (haven't actually found that part yet) should be boycotted (apparently what has happened--yes there were pamphlets distributed, etc.) seems to miss the very point that this is just what kids should be doing at this age; and if it freaks out there parents, so much the better!

One thing Pullman has commented on that I am starting to agree with--namely if the film hadn't been toned down/neutered, it might have fared better. Who's to say.

I'm really just speculating what the place is for controversial works aimed at non-adult audiences. Some have cried out that this sort of thing is wrong, but I don't think so...

AV Team
AV Team
Posts: 6634
Joined: February 8th, 2005
Location: The US of A

Post by Dacey » February 27th, 2008, 5:53 pm

The very fact that this movie won the Oscar for Visual Effects is one of the BIGGEST jokes I have ever seen.

Quite seriously, why it won is beyond me. Many of the effects in the film weren't even top-notch.

"Pirates" was far more deserving of the prize. Period.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."

Post Reply