X-Men Movies Thread

[Dacey]

Matthew Vaughn's fingerprints were all over First Class, and with the exception of Borigins, Days of Future Past had the least personality "direction wise" of any of the X-Men films (apart from the almost shockingly great Quicksilver sequence).

Seriously, I was shocked by how low the stakes felt here. This was supposed to be the "ultimate X-Men film," but The Last Stand--for all of the flack it gets for reasons that are beyond me--had much more exciting action. Maybe it's because you actually felt like characters could die in that film because some actually did, but it's probably more of a factor of Singer really not caring about this sort of thing anymore. And with the way the time travel angle was used, there was never any reason for the audience to be worried, knowing that the ending would "fix" things somehow.

Having said all of that, I did still like the film. I'm just not sure how much I liked it at this stage, because honestly, I'm really torn about certain aspects...but those aspects can wait for a later post.

[ShyViolet]

IMHO this was a more psychological kind of film than First Class and definitely The Last Stand. The stakes were different, sure--it wasn't about some big battle but about the decisions the individuals would make. It was about young Charles Xavier's journey to caring about "your future" after giving up so much of himself; it was about Wolverine's journey to give to Charles what Charles had once given him: hope. "I may be able to help you find some answers," Charles told Wolverine in X1. Here, it's Wolverine--and Charles' future self--that provides them.

It was, of course, also about Charles and Erik's vying for Mystique's soul; for the fate of human and mutant kind. The stakes weren't about whether the Sentinels would wipe out everyone but whether humanity--and that includes mutants--would destroy themselves through battle after battle. Does stopping Mystique from killing Trask "fix" things, and redeem us--there's no way to really know.

(One of the things I hated most about The Last Stand: Xavier's line to Logan: "I don't need to explain my actions, least of all to you." WHAT??? Xavier does NOT talk like this, ESPECIALLY to Logan, whom he worked so hard to try and rehabilitate. That movie had zero character development, period. )

[Buzz Bumble]

That movie had zero character development period,

By the time you have the fight scenes, the car chase scenes, the chase the baddie on foot scenes, the sex scenes, and the over-the-top explosion scenes, plus the half-hour of closing credits (thanking everyone from the tea boy and shoeshine girl upwards) ... where can you fit the character development into "blockbuster" movies these days??

[ShyViolet]

There was plenty of it in DOFP.

[Dacey]

There was plenty of it in The Last Stand.

[ShyViolet]

....like??

1.) The barely explained sudden switch to evil on the part of Jean Grey, (oh she was always "evil" since childhood and Xavier somehow repressed it??) with almost no scenes of her struggling with this identity. (Kind of like Defoe's Green Goblin having no scenes of Osborne terrified of what is happening to him.)

2.) Scott sad about Jean, sad about Jean, sad about Jean--then disappearing. I mean dying, whatever.

3.) Bobby's unexplained "date" or whatever it was with Kitty.

4.) Bobby facing off against Pyro--as if anyone cares, since they were never even really friends in the first place, or even enemies.

5.) Wolverine's lusting after Jean, lusting after Jean, ripping people up with claws, ripping people up with claws, then killing Jean so that we have another overly dramatic, bathetic death scene to endure.

6.) And other stuff, too. But I think I'll stop for now lol.

[eddievalient]

Xavier's line to Logan: "I don't need to explain my actions, least of all to you." WHAT??? Xavier does NOT talk like this, ESPECIALLY to Logan, whom he worked so hard to try and rehabilitate.

Comic book Xavier does. We may not see that side of him most of the time, but it is there. Personally, I've always thought that Last Stand and Origins were the closest to the comics in terms of being just as silly and over the top as they are (in the best possible way of course), whereas the other films have been an attempt to streamline things to make it accessible to a mainstream audience. Both approaches work just fine for this material, but it does annoy me that for all the fanboy complaints about movies not being like the comics, the two that actually were get the most hate. Make up your minds, people!

[ShyViolet]

Oh, I didn't realize that. Haven't read the comics in quite a few years now.
Also, just wanted to say that I hope my above post didn't come across as too sarcastic: just commenting on the film: I respect everyone's opinion on it.

[EricJ]

1.) The barely explained sudden switch to evil on the part of Jean Grey, (oh she was always "evil" since childhood and Xavier somehow repressed it??) with almost no scenes of her struggling with this identity. (Kind of like Defoe's Green Goblin having no scenes of Osborne terrified of what is happening to him.)

It's HINTED in X2 that she was losing some of her control after a jolt from using Cerebro in the first movie.
Although this was mostly to save money on having her go into space and be possessed by a cosmic entity.
(Hey, fans...You wanted the Saga.)

And Xavier's line to Logan wasn't half as bad as Singer being on a vanity roll at the end of X2 and having Xavier actually threaten the president with "we're here, get used to it".
Which would rather be like the equivalent of Martin Luther King raising the black-power fist.

[Vernadyn]

Now that I think back, the only real character development scenes between Charles and Erik in DOFP were on that plane--and they were superb. I think the film's biggest flaw was trying to stuff too many things in, resulting in some aspects getting short shrift.

Yes, the Quicksilver action scene was neat--but how much neater would it have been if it had actually been tied in to the development of the characters we're supposed to care about? I remember Brad Bird talking about the 100 Mile Dash scene from The Incredibles and how the best action scenes have the character learning or developing as the scene progresses. In DOFP, Quicksilver pretty much exists for that one action scene.

But I did think this was a very good movie--not quite great, but certainly a good antidote to The Not-So-Amazing Spider-Man 2.

[Dacey]

1.) The barely explained sudden switch to evil on the part of Jean Grey, (oh she was always "evil" since childhood and Xavier somehow repressed it??) with almost no scenes of her struggling with this identity. (Kind of like Defoe's Green Goblin having no scenes of Osborne terrified of what is happening to him.)

In X2, we see Jean struggling with her power. She has much more power than she realizes, and is also losing control over it. Also, when she "drowns," that's probably when the "Phoenix" awoke within her and is actually what saved her.

2.) Scott sad about Jean, sad about Jean, sad about Jean--then disappearing. I mean dying, whatever.

As opposed to the Scott getting defensive at Wolverine, Scott getting defensive at Wolverine, Scott getting defensive at Wolverine we got in the first two movies. Also, as I said before, he got offed because Singer stole James Marsden for Superman. He could literally spend only one week on the X-Men set.

3.) Bobby's unexplained "date" or whatever it was with Kitty.

A hormonally charged teenager who just lost his mentor (Professor X) and can't touch his girlfriend will seek companionship of some sort in the heat of the moment I'm sure.

4.) Bobby facing off against Pyro--as if anyone cares, since they were never even really friends in the first place, or even enemies.

I don't think cool, 30-second fight scenes need 20 minutes of "character buildup" in order to pay off as cool, 30-second fight scenes.

5.) Wolverine's lusting after Jean, lusting after Jean, ripping people up with claws, ripping people up with claws, then killing Jean so that we have another overly dramatic, bathetic death scene to endure.

Again, isn't this what Wolverine did in the first two movies? Without Stryker to dwell on anymore, and feeling responsible for "releasing" Phoenix against Charles' orders, of course he's going to feel that way after he has to kill her. Also, as far as I'm concerned, "Wolverine kills Phoenix" is one of the best moments of its kind in any superhero movie.

So yeah, I'm still baffled by the "hate" The Last Stand gets, and am pretty sure much of it comes from it simply being "cool" to do so. Singer's passive aggressiveness towards the film (which is what I've called it before, and is all I really can call it) comes across as obnoxious at best, and, if I'm honest, The Last Stand is actually a better made movie than the first X-Men film (which did have six months of its production cut off, but you know what I mean).

I'm just amazed that with much less production time, Ratner was able to make a more flashy and exciting X-Men film than Singer was able to with a much bigger budget on Days of Future Past. We got Wolverine and Beast fighting ONLY ONE Sentinel. If that doesn't count as at least a little disappointing, I don't know what does.

And, again, I say this as someone who is a fan of all of the X-Men films (new one included), with the notable exception of Borigins.

[LotsoA113]

I'm just amazed that with much less production time, Ratner was able to make a more flashy and exciting X-Men film than Singer was able to with a much bigger budget on Days of Future Past. We got Wolverine and Beast fighting ONLY ONE Sentinel. If that doesn't count as at least a little disappointing, I don't know what does.

I don't think that's especially disappointing since A) Several other mutants fought them at the start of the movie and in the finale and B) I wouldn't want this X-Men movie to pull a Man Of Steel and be overloaded with action in it's third act.

[ShyViolet]

I'm just amazed that with much less production time, Ratner was able to make a more flashy and exciting X-Men film than Singer was able to with a much bigger budget on Days of Future Past. We got Wolverine and Beast fighting ONLY ONE Sentinel. If that doesn't count as at least a little disappointing, I don't know what does.

And, again, I say this as someone who is a fan of all of the X-Men films (new one included), with the notable exception of Borigins.

I do see your points, Dacey. I guess what I'm really objecting to is not the actual plot points but their execution. It all felt forced to me, shoehorned in for "drama" but with no real resonance. I wanted to see more of Jean's struggle, Wolverine's struggle in trying to bring Jean back from evil, and the actual buildup of Rogue's making the decision to give up her powers (other than that one conversation with Bobby and then Wolverine). It was just like, "O.K., first A, then B, then C." There was no overarching theme, like in X1 (living in a world that hates and fears you, struggling to cope with powers) X2 (a deeper look at those who hate mutants) or DOFP (changing history so that the future can exist, seeing if humanity/mutants really DO have the potential not to keep fighting--a question which is never really answered, only mediated upon.) There was really nothing wrong with seeing Bobby fight Pyro, but it took up way too much time and was given a sense of importance which has no anchor in the film. There was already a ton of "good/evil" fighting, and the sequence felt extremely extraneous to me.

I just didn't see any real theme in TLS. It was entertaining enough, (and Beast was a real treat) but it just didn't have that "special" feeling I got from the Singer-helmed films (or the urgency). It's just how I feel. I guess I'm just a Singer fan (other than Superman Returns of course) and admire him as a director. I know not everyone feels this way, and I respect that.

[ShyViolet]

Also, here's a bunch of stuff on Rogue's cut scenes in DOFP! (Spoilers of course)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-hap ... ZJUDA0OV8x

[Dacey]

Well, for what it's worth, the studio was apparently very nervous about doing the Dark Phoenix storyline at all, out of fear that non comic book fans would find it too dark and violent (which, given the "ending" of DOFP, many apparently did). They ended up compromising with the film's writers if they agreed to include the "happier" Joss Whedon "cure for the mutants" storyline with it.

There was really nothing wrong with seeing Bobby fight Pyro, but it took up way too much time and was given a sense of importance which has no anchor in the film.

Here's where I'm just confused. Watch the scene again. It must take 30 seconds at most. Hardly "way too much time" in my book.