The Incredibles - merged theatrical thread

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Post by Special_Ed » November 2nd, 2004, 3:09 pm

I hope you were only joking....

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Post by Lindsay » November 2nd, 2004, 4:01 pm

That's what the eyeroller smiley was for... ;)

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Post by MusicFan » November 2nd, 2004, 7:35 pm

SPACEHERO55 wrote:I dont think it's fair to use Anime as an example of why animated films should not be longer than 90 minutes. The Japanese do things differently, the way they tell their stories is different. They are alla bout sureal symbolism and bizzare meaning, They like to kill of their main characters and most animes have really depressing endings.

I think it's better to look at American live action films that are 2 hours long and it works. I look at films like the Star Wars Trilogy, Indiana Jones Trilogy and the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. These films were Epic Action Adventure/Sci-Fi films that were made better by their longer length. They were too big and epic to be confined to a time frame of less that 90 minutes. These films were longer, but keeped your interest. there was an equal amount of plot and character development and awsome action because of the longer length, you get the best of both worlds.

I feel it's like this for most adventure films. They just tend to be longer and it works out better cause of it. I feel that animated adventure films should be the same way. Atlantis should have been longer with more action scenes same goes for Treasure Planet and Sinbad.

Trust me the film wont drag and you wont get bored. The Length justifies the subject matter of the film. It's A Superhero Action Adventure and a 115 running time is dead on. This is not an anime.


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An animated film that's quite longer than 2 hours, would have a pretty looooooooooooooooong production time.

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Katzenberg

Post by ShyViolet » November 2nd, 2004, 8:52 pm

Special_Ed wrote:Animation is looked on as a sub lower class film genre. Every other film technique can go over 90 minutes without any complain save animation. There is nothing wrong with an animated film running over 90 minutes if it takes longer to tell the story. Atlantis and Prince of Egypt are both films that would have been greater at a longer length. More time allows for more depth of story and more time for character development. I applaud Pixar for once again taking this new step to make animation on par with all live action genres. We need to be excited at what new doors this can open. Just think, 10 years from not a 2 hr plus animated feature may be a common thing.

BTW ShyViolet, you need to chug on over to Savedisney.com. They have an 11 part article on the history of new Disney animation that you need to read. From the exemployees I know this is a very accurate portrayal of events.

Thanks Ed. That's actually been there a while, I've skimmed it before. It's definetely interesting and I"m not saying I don't agree with all of. I"m sure it's got some merit.

But you have to admit that whether or not you support this site, they put a "spin" on everything. I'm sure a lot of what is in that story is correct but I could tell that whoever wrote the story left Katzenberg out at every turn possible. He ran animation for ten years, ran the Disney studios, helped develop the films with the animators, but for some reason you're not supposed to talk about him. How can they claim to write a legitimate story while barely mentioning him? They "grudgingly" (at best) mention that he was "learning" about animation, but not much else. So why do tons of articles from the early 90's/late 80's talk about Katzenberg's role in the films? I've looked them up and couldn't believe how much you can find on Katzenberg if you look at pre-1994 media. But on SaveDisney, nothing.
There's so many examples of themes in Aladdin and Lion King etc..that can be seen in his DW films, there's the in-jokes humor epic sense of story (SaveDisney attributes the epic-ness to "management") beautiful women, sideckicks all of which Katzenberg helped develop but when you want to read/learn about him there's just this big blank space. And don't forget that Roy DID want Katzenberg out (check out the NY Times and the Guardian from 1994! Check out Wall Street Journal from December 03), DID tell Eisner to fire him and DID edit him out of "The Making of the Lion King," when the film was released on video. How can you just explain all that away?

BTW at www.laweekly.com there's a very entertaining column on the current Mike Ovitz vs. Disney Shareholders trial. It shows you the kind of things Ovitz might have done to Disney had he been given more power.
“I want it all—the terrifying lows, the dizzying highs, the creamy middles!”

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Post by GeorgeC » November 3rd, 2004, 12:12 am

I think "running too long" really means poor story pacing and sacrificing the strength of visual medium -- letting film images tell a story -- for the sake of being verbose.

If a film is paced properly, it can run for 3 or 4 hours and it doesn't really seem that long. One of the best-paced films I saw in the last 15 years was Spike Lee's Malcolm X and that's over 3 hours long. I've also seen The Right Stuff which was another 3-hour-long movie and even though I liked that film and its subject a lot it definitely was not as well-paced as Malcolm X.

What tends to happen with a lot of anime features is that the directors get off on a tangent and start discussing political topics and philosophy in-depth. This doesn't help the story progression and the films tend to stall as a result and move at a SSSSSLLLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWW pace. Also, most audience members get bored by political topics and philosophical discussions that go on and on. The recent Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence is a perfect example of an anime feature that suffers from diarrhea of the mouth. The director of that film felt he had to stuff every scene with tons of philosophical dialogue (the kiss of death) and didn't let the film imagery tell the story. As a result, the film felt both padded and longer than it actually was.

The only veteran feature anime director (person who's directed anime features for more than 10 years) right now that I think is consistently good is Hayao Miyazaki. I've seen most of the features of his released in the West and with the exception of Princess Mononoke have liked all of them. Miyazaki definitely doesn't suffer from verbosity and does let the film imagery tell the story.

It really doesn't help matters that most anime feature screen-writing is as putrid as its Western counterparts but the directors often make the mistake of forgetting (like certain American directors) that films are a visual medium. If these directors were doing radio plays, talking things to death might be okay, but it's not great for movies.

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Post by David » November 3rd, 2004, 4:32 am

I think if anything is going to kill The success of the Incredibles, (I don't think anything will, it's looks awesome). But if there is something i think it will be the running time!

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Post by Sh00tingstar » November 3rd, 2004, 3:31 pm

They are alla bout sureal symbolism and bizzare meaning, They like to kill of their main characters and most animes have really depressing endings.
oh what BS.

Im sorry, but i love disney and dreamworks, and alot of other animation that couldnt be counted as 'mainstram and traditional'

have u seen all the miyazaki films? u want a movie that is beautifully animated -far mor intricate and realistic than disney- then watch My Neighbour toroto. it is neither surreal nor does it kill off its main characters or have a depressing ending.

you are making such a huge generalisation.

the estra legnth is makes these films great- u see more development, u see more design, i dont think there is a huge difference between the animation standard- except maybe u have a problem with the style of the films- someone said to me- their faces always look the same. yeah? so do all the dreamworks faces!! big deal.

look,i could say, disney sucks, their movies are all geared toward 10 year old girls, they always have a happy ending and they are too short to allow anyone to engage in the characters, i mean, deeper engagement then wanting to go out any buy the action figure or barbie later.

u sit down and watch the miyazaki classics, oh and watch grave of the fireflies by isao takahata too.

sure they arent disney, but these films come from a culture that has had to adapt a western medium to fit their purpose. and unlike dreamworks stealing disneys story telling, at least japan has harvested and cultivated their own original and heart warming films with a unique style.
"When the stars fall I will lie awake..you're my shooting star

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Post by SPACEHERO55 » November 3rd, 2004, 4:45 pm

David Why does the longer running time have to hurt this film? My God!! whats wrong with this movie being longer than most animated films? I love that it's longer than most animated films. It means that it's gonna be more epic and bigger with more plot and character development and more action too. Brad Bird is an innovator and I commend him for not catering to the "under 90 minutes" rule and I hope that this is the start of something new with animated films being longer.


Ok Sh00tingstar perhaps I was a bit too general. I have seen some anime that was really good, but I have to say that an example of animated films that should have been shorter are Spirited Away and Princess Mononke. Those films were way too long and dragged. They were all about sureal symbolism and bizzare meaning.

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Im a Superhero, what could happen?

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Post by Macaluso » November 3rd, 2004, 5:05 pm

SPACEHERO55 wrote:David Why does the longer running time have to hurt this film? My God!! whats wrong with this movie being longer than most animated films? I love that it's longer than most animated films. It means that it's gonna be more epic and bigger with more plot and character development and more action too. Brad Bird is an innovator and I commend him for not catering to the "under 90 minutes" rule and I hope that this is the start of something new with animated films being longer.
Not seeing the movie yet, you can't really say that.

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Post by SPACEHERO55 » November 3rd, 2004, 9:46 pm

Ok Macaluso you have a point there, but still I predict that this film is gonna be better because of it's longer running time, I could be wrong, but I doubt it , hopefully Im right.


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Im a Superhero, what could happen?

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Post by Mamela » November 4th, 2004, 12:49 am

If it's entertaining then the 115 minutes should be enjoyable.

No one can really say yet though because well...psst..no ones watched it yet..well I haven't. I probably won't get to for awhile. ;.;

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Post by David » November 4th, 2004, 4:41 am

SPACEHERO55 wrote:David Why does the longer running time have to hurt this film? My God!! whats wrong with this movie being longer than most animated films? I love that it's longer than most animated films. It means that it's gonna be more epic and bigger with more plot and character development and more action too. Brad Bird is an innovator and I commend him for not catering to the "under 90 minutes" rule and I hope that this is the start of something new with animated films being longer.


Ok Sh00tingstar perhaps I was a bit too general. I have seen some anime that was really good, but I have to say that an example of animated films that should have been shorter are Spirited Away and Princess Mononke. Those films were way too long and dragged. They were all about sureal symbolism and bizzare meaning.

Ronald C
I have absolutely no problem with the fact this film is 115mins, it's great!
What i meant was, the average kid like has been mentioned before may get bored despite how good the actual film is.

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Movie analysts - "The Incredibles" may not be so i

Post by GeorgeC » November 4th, 2004, 2:58 pm

Already read this slice at Internet Movie Database ( www.imdb.com ) :

Predictions are that "The Incredibles" won't beat the record set by "Shrek 2" this year nor will it equal "Finding Nemo" 's success.

There are a lot of competing family films being released this holiday season not to mention high-profile DVD releases that will probably eat into the film's box office.

Predictions are that the film will ultimately gross $500 million worldwide and roughly half that in the US.

It's still respectable earnings, yes, but it can be expected that people are going to get tired of event films happening EVERY year and that the CGI novelty is wearing off good films or bad... It also doesn't help that "The Incredibles" is the latest in an unbroken string of superhero films for the past 3-4 years.

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Post by Lindsay » November 4th, 2004, 11:11 pm

It has competition, that's for sure. But time will tell as to which of those films are quality enough to keep drawing audiences. Here's hopin' (again) that Polar Express bombs - a creepy film like that doesn't deserve success. :roll:

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Your thoughts about The Incredibles?

Post by James » November 5th, 2004, 7:13 pm

So what did you think?

I'll write more this weekend, but I have to say that this is the only animated film I have ever seen where I forgot it was animated! I'd go as far as to say this was not an animated film, but an action film that just happened to be in the animated genre.

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