Garfield

Post by **Josh** » April 11th, 2005, 6:44 pm

Keep in mind, though, that in the series, Hades hadn't come out as fully evil yet. Like at Hercules' baby shower in the film, Hades was just known as annoying comic relief to the gods.

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 11th, 2005, 6:50 pm

Hmmmm....hadn't thought of that.

But one thing comes to mind.....(this is going to drive fans of the film nuts)

In the film, Hades didn't know until Hercules' 18th birthday that Pain and Panic hadn't killed him. But in the series, Hades is interacting with/battling Hercules (a "hero in training") during his teenage years....that totally contradicts the film.

Plus you never see Hercules' adopted parents in the cartoon, just Hera and Zeus. It's like he forgot all about them.

Post by **Guardstone** » April 11th, 2005, 6:53 pm

i think you're spot on there, Violet. It's the combination of the two (likeability and evilness) that makes him, and other great villians, so memorable. It's what you also see lacking in the villains of movies like Mulan. That Shan-Yu, geez, talk about a 2D character! I really like the character design, and he could have been so much more memorable, but the character was as flat as the paper he was drawn on. Shame...

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 11th, 2005, 7:00 pm

I agree, Shan-Yu was a real diappointment.

Maybe they were afraid of making him "too evil" and thus be accused of racism or something. But he was already so flat, and he didn't even have a celebrity voice! (Jim Cummings played him, of course).

I'm guessing that all through the production they were INTENDING to make him more evil/interesting, but never got around to it.

Mulan was most likely plagued by other story problems that left less time to develop the villain. Just my interpretation, I don't really know.

Post by **Josh** » April 11th, 2005, 7:11 pm

I think they were just going for a more mysterious approach with Shan-Yu.

Post by **Christian** » April 11th, 2005, 7:23 pm

I didn't have a problem with Shan-Yu. It worked fine for me. Not that all villains should be as underdeveloped . . .
My impression was: he was a mean guy who liked to be mean to people. Unfortunately, some people are just like that.

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 11th, 2005, 8:51 pm

True....

*Just came to mind*--Another AWESOME villain--SYNDROME!!!!!!

This guy has EVERYTHING you need for a great animated villain.

Funny, charismatic, ALMOST likable, but sadistic and cruel as well. Even some pathos which makes him all the more fascinating. (I think all really great villains need some pathos) And a wonderful actor voicing him. Can go from charming to quietly terrifying in a second.

Syndrome--awesome, awesome villain in the Hades vein.

Hopper and Al from Toy Story II were great villains as well.

One villain I had real problems with was Clayton from Tarzan. Does anyone even know who I"m talking about? Now there was a 2-d villain...he makes Shan-Yu look like Scar. Blah!

*Worst Villain Ever!*

Post by **Josh** » April 11th, 2005, 9:39 pm

I wouldn't call Clayton the worst villain ever. To me, he seemed to suite the movie. SPOILERS:

Nonetheless, my favorite villain may be Frollo- a man who would not hesitate to sacrifice an entire city in order to quench his lustful desires, while hidden under the persona of someone deeply religious.

Post by **Macaluso** » April 11th, 2005, 10:46 pm

There aren't too many disney villians I DON'T like.
I loved Clayton personally. I loved Frollo. I loved syndrom.
I LOVE LOVE LOVED Hopper.
And Ursula is my FAVORITE villian ever.

Post by **Christian** » April 12th, 2005, 12:32 am

Frodo's a Disney villain? Okay, I'm just being annoying again.

Post by **Macaluso** » April 12th, 2005, 6:08 am

*fixes*
I'll cut you

Post by **Ben** » April 12th, 2005, 8:23 am

I loved that moment (the spolier Mickey refers to above)!!

I caught it in the theater on my first watch and just thought "oh, now THAT is cool".

I think there are a ton of GREAT Disney villains and a ton of BAD villains. The great ones are usually the over dramatic, flamboyant ones, while the ones from the "middle-Disney" period, with the exception of Prince John, could be classed as lacklustre "villains".

Post by **Phil** » April 12th, 2005, 9:14 am

ShyViolet wrote:Shan-Yu was a real diappointment.

Maybe they were afraid of making him "too evil" and thus be accused of racism or something. But he was already so flat, and he didn't even have a celebrity voice! (Jim Cummings played him, of course).

Sorry, Shan-Yu was not voiced by Jim Cummings. Miguel Ferrer did it. Still not a major celebrity, but more mainstream than Jim.

And I thought Shan-Yu was a great villain. Like Mickey said, he was mysterious. He was bulky and unstoppably strong, but also agile and graceful. He looked like a wild, ugly barbarian, but his voice was smooth and calm and he spoke and acted intelligently. These things made him unpredictable and therefore dangerous. When I first saw the movie, I thought they should have revealed more about him, but really that would have ruined the mystique.

Post by **Macaluso** » April 12th, 2005, 11:22 am

Ben wrote:The great ones are usually the over dramatic, flamboyant ones

Friggen RATIGAN

Post by **ShyViolet** » April 12th, 2005, 11:37 am

I read Ratigan was partially modeled on Ron Miller (the football player physique.)