Official Star Wars Thread

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Ben » December 22nd, 2019, 5:20 am

Hmmmmm...we really need to talk. ;)

Top 3? Nah. I’m struggling to even say it’s better than Force Awakens! Just so much isn’t explained. There’s a whole movie's worth of plot between TLJ and ROS that isn’t accounted for!

Yes, it IS a brilliant restoration of everything that went wrong in TLJ. But that frankly isn’t enough to redeem the Disney trilogy, which has been botched right from the start and was sooo far gone that even ROS has trouble fully convincing in its ambitious. Yes, of course it’s a much better film than TLJ, but it has so much juggling to do to try and undo all of that sith that, in a major way, it can’t be its own film and, therefore, a *properly* fitting end to the saga.

And, again, they could have told this story so much better over the three films, and even told this specific movie's plot better. So many missed opportunities, especially right at the end, when plot contrivances overtook making actual sense!

Much more to say once some more folks have caught up...!

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Randall » December 22nd, 2019, 9:03 am

Sure, it's all still quite botched. :) Totally! In the end, I think we would all have been better off just living with the Extended Universe and never getting another film. But given that we got what we got with the last two films, I was positively thrilled with TRoS. It may age no better than the previous two (or the prequels for that matter), but I sure enjoyed it. Of course, I said that after TFA too, and it has not aged well for me. (Way too much of a lift of ANH for it to qualify as a Top 3 for me at this point.) In the final analysis, I doubt that I will disagree with many of your criticisms; the only difference being that I was able to look past them and enjoy the film a whole lot more. :) (Looking past a film's faults is something I consider a talent, or at least a blessing. I know you just think I'm crazy. ;) ) Basically, it's a lot better an ending than I could have predicted, so for that I'm grateful. Sure, it may have a ton of problems, I'll give you that, but much of that was because of being so desperate to correct for the previous two films. Perhaps my expectations were just that low. But I do think JJ did a fantastic job overall on this last one.

It's really too bad Disney was in too much of a hurry to allow him time to do the second film in this trilogy. Or, for that matter, allow him time to write an original script for TFA. Of course, given another year to polish the script for TRoS, it would likely have been much better yet too! Disney has rushed this whole saga, but at least it ended better than it started. And I actually look forward to binging these three films together in a few months, even if I realize they're messy.

As much as the original Star Wars was a huge influence on my life, since seeing it in the theatre when I was 7, I don't hold it to too high a standard, I guess. It's really pretty cheesy in a lot of ways, and I accept that I love cheese. And any illusions of Star Wars being perfect were shattered a long time ago, when Return of the Jedi came out.

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by droosan » December 23rd, 2019, 5:19 pm

I re-watched The Force Awakens on Disney+ Saturday .. re-watched The Last Jedi on Netflix Sunday .. and saw The Rise of Skywalker in my local theater Monday morning. 8)

I think the new trilogy 'works' quite well, for what it is. Could it have been 'more'..? Oh, certainly .. but I'm rather satisfied with what we got. Though -- as previously mentioned -- I was among the minority of OT fans who was pretty happy with The Last Jedi, overall. I regard The Force Awakens as the 'weakest' entry, in this trilogy .. but even it's a pretty good Star Wars movie, IMO.

I was a bit disappointed that my two favorite characters from The Last Jedi -- Rose Tico and DJ (Benicio Del Toro's treacherous 'code-breaker' character) -- were 'sidelined' and did not return, respectively. It also might've been nice to have Captain Phasma back, for one more go at Finn .. implausable as that might've been. Could've been cool to see General Hera or perhaps the 'Ghost' in the final battle, too .. but at least they were implied to be there, in Rogue One. It was great to see Lando again .. and even Wedge, for a hot second! :) (highlight text to read .. but be warned: there are some SPOILERS within)
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Dacey » December 23rd, 2019, 5:35 pm

I does baffle me to no end that The Last Jedi fared MUCH better with critics than Rise of Skywalker did. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all of that, but it does seem like ROS would generally be considered the better of the two films.

For me, in terms of ranking the new films, I still put The Force Awakens on top, followed by Solo (which I actually loved!), followed by Rise of Skywalker, with Last Jedi in last for now (I'm not including Rogue One in this listing for the time being, not because I didn't like it, but because I haven't watched that one since the theater).

Yes, TFA is similar to A New Hope, but it's meant to be. It's also an exceptionally well-made film, absolutely nailing the tone that Disney was no doubt wanting from this new trilogy.
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by EricJ » December 24th, 2019, 1:45 am

Dacey wrote:
December 23rd, 2019, 5:35 pm
I does baffle me to no end that The Last Jedi fared MUCH better with critics than Rise of Skywalker did. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all of that, but it does seem like ROS would generally be considered the better of the two films.
Well, keep in mind Disney was running strategic interference with that "Subverted fans' expectations" blame-the-victim nonsense, and who isn't wishful sucker for a good low-hanging poke at convention fanboys now and then?
(Remember all the rushing to the defense of Grumpy Ol' Jerk Luke, and "He was supposed to toss the lightsaber, the widdle-baby fans just didn't want to see him do that!"?)

But also there was this sense of denial that no matter how bad Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones had been...they hadn't been THIS over-the-cliff bad.
There was still some sense of coherency and plot-direction to the Prequels, and even Force Awakens, how could this happen out of the blue?...Maybe it didn't happen. Maybe we were just in a bad mood, and it would look better after another screening?

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Ben » December 24th, 2019, 4:30 am

No, it looked worse.

Basically the Disney trilogy has been botched from the start. Randall and I have been having an email convo about this and are broadly in agreement, though he’s much more forgiving than I am. The bottom line is that they didn’t have a plan...and then rushed them, just about the worse combination you can imagine.

This is not to say they are not well made, fun or enjoyable. And that’s not to say they should pay fan service all the way through. But, ironically and ultimately, the only SW trilogy to have been planned out from the start was the prequels. In time, it will be noted that the Disney films are not really the SW sequels we’d been looking for.

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by ShyViolet » December 24th, 2019, 8:57 pm

Still excited to see it, mostly just to have some “closure” (whatever that means). Also, I heard there’s a “baby Yoda” (!) in it or something, which has piqued my interest...I guess. :?

Anyway, I came across the “Honest Teaser” for Force Awakens. (It was posted in November 2015.). Honestly, it really does make me kinda sad to watch it again, since it reflects all the fanboy hope (some skepticism, but still hope) that this might finally be the Star Wars film we needed. (And deserved! :|).


https://youtu.be/pegJQPIzfs4
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Ben » December 24th, 2019, 9:29 pm

Baby Yoda (though it’s not actually a baby Yoda) is from the D+ show, Vi. :)

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by ShyViolet » December 26th, 2019, 5:15 pm

Ah. OK, that makes more sense. :) ;).


Also just wanted to say Happy Boxing Day to Ben, Rand, and everyone else in the UK/Canada! :)
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Randall » December 26th, 2019, 7:15 pm

Thanks, Vi! Have a nice holiday season!

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Ben » January 10th, 2020, 6:43 am

I don’t know if any of you guys keep up with any of the ABSOLUTELY GENIUS Mr Plinkett and associated takes on the newer Star Wars, but they’ve hit the nail on the head once again with everything that wasn’t right/could have been so much better in TROS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pAsss_nTlk

Warning for frank, honest language! But these are so worth putting aside time for. :)

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by ShyViolet » January 14th, 2020, 6:44 pm

Just got out. So unbelievably epic...totally NOT what I was expecting, in more ways than one! :) Will write more later, but as Ben said this film works incredibly hard to fix the gigantic holes in TLJ (which I see much more clearly now); a noble aspiration in itself that is AT LEAST partially successful.

So many emotional moments; wasn’t expecting film to affect me the slightest bit emotionally...but it did. (When Po and Finn hugged after the First Order was defeated, Rey on Tatooine at the very end, and most of all when Han shows up. :cry:)

What a movie! Action scenes so well done and of course Williams score impeccable (particularly during the final confrontation, Rey’s earlier reunion with Luke, and the final scene with “Rey Skywalker.” :) :cry:)

Would probably rate this below Empire and A New Hope, but definitely above Jedi and all of the prequels. As for TFA I think it was sort of a “prelude” to this film, (not a tie exactly but definitely connected narratively.)

I guess then TLJ (even though the Mark Hammill parts were really the only good ones; I thought he had great chemistry with Ridley.)

I guess then Revenge of the Sith, Clone Wars and finally Phantom Menace. (That’s actually a pretty good way of describing its ranking in this hierarchy! Lol.)
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Ben » January 14th, 2020, 6:59 pm

And...now you need to watch the link I posted above...! :)

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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by ShyViolet » January 14th, 2020, 7:02 pm

I definitely will! :)

(But I’ll still love the movie...like with Interstellar, I appreciate that it has flaws but it’ll definitely stay special for me. ;))
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Re: Official Star Wars Thread

Post by Bill1978 » January 15th, 2020, 2:15 am

You know the part of Rise of Skywalker that disappointed me the most? Three Pio's demise. I found that section more poignant and emotional in the trailer. The trailer presented it like Three Pio made the decision himself to end his life. The fact he was forced to do it against his will in the movie really took away the sadness that I'm sure they were going for.

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