Disney's Raya And The Last Dragon

[Ben]

I don’t think that works for *all* the new Disney and Pixar films, no. Tangled, no. Big Hero 6, no. Coco, no. Ralphs, no. Of course it’s not applicable or non-applicable to each and every, but I was just making the point about Moana, since Maui is more than just an antagonist. He’s what sets the entire events in motion, causing the heroine to go on her journey, before he ultimately gets the redeeming arc and saves the day, despite the illusion that it’s Moana's film (in which she actually does very little: gifted girl sets out to do something and, er, does it, which was the same "problem" with Newlan).

[Farerb]

Yes, Maui gets a mini redemption arc, but just because Moana's arc isn't about redemption, it doesn't mean she doesn't have any. She starts the film conflicted between her duty and her passion and throughout the film she learns to gap between the two by learning about her culture, her people's culture, and learning about how to pass that culture to her people's future. Moana didn't need Maui to restore the heart of Te Fiti, she needed him to teach her how to voyage again, how to be a wayfinder and a navigator, because unlike what you said, she wasn't gifted, she could barely stir a small boat (so I have no idea where the Mulan comparison came from since Mulan was basically a superhero while Moana wasn't). And about how many Disney movies can you say that they invest their time in order to develop their main character to be a good ruler? With the Princesses? Other than Moana - none. With the other films? Maybe The Lion King.

[Ben]

Moana wouldn’t have had to do anything if Maui hadn’t stolen the heart in the first place. And right from the off she was able to communicate with the ocean, which isn’t, y'know, normal.

[EricJ]

(in which she actually does very little: gifted girl sets out to do something and, er, does it, which was the same "problem" with Newlan).

One Youtuber critic putting Newlan on his 10 Worst of '20 list made the same observation:
Live-action Mulan is now "perfect"--as noted, a "superheroine"--since she has to be a Marketable Empowered Role-Model Icon to sell dresses at Disney stores to moms who don't want their little girls buying Aurora dresses.
90's-Renaissance-animated Mulan was a girl we sympathized with, tragically and comically, since she felt she didn't measure up to her family, and jumped in at the deep end trying to prove herself despite ridiculously overwhelming odds.

It's a combination of Disney's live-action remakes already canonizing their past characters as if we're supposed to know and love them already walking in, and the new female execs who don't know or particularly care about the cinematic difference between entertainment and indoctrination.
If Moana ever gets a live-action remake, she won't need a ship, she can just walk on the water.

[Ben]

Well, I was going to add that Moana also didn’t need Maui to help her steer a boat or navigate: all she needed was a confidence-boosting song and she was up and over those waves and go to go!

[gaastra]

she wasn't gifted

In the early scripts the water was not alive. Moana had water powers! It was changed later! Also many think she is a demi god as well! She can talk to water, talk to and see ghosts as well as the past, survive under water long sets of times, and can go into the realm of monsters that in the old stories no human can enter! Plus how did she survive that fall into it? It would have killed any other human! Even Maui said "well she's dead." to the fall.

Most fans think she is a demi god.

[Farerb]

Moana wouldn’t have had to do anything if Maui hadn’t stolen the heart in the first place. And right from the off she was able to communicate with the ocean, which isn’t, y'know, normal.

Are Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora and Ariel the same because they can communicate with animals? Aren't Belle and Pocahontas too perfect as well? What exactly is their arc? What about Rapunzel who's basically talented in every activity in the world? How come none of them is compared to "Newlan"?

Communicating with the ocean isn't an ability, Tala could do it. The ocean choose to whom it wants to expose itself. It's the same as communicating with carpet. Hey Aladdin was able to communicate with carpet and then he got the ability to fly, is he like "Newlan"?

Well, I was going to add that Moana also didn’t need Maui to help her steer a boat or navigate: all she needed was a confidence-boosting song and she was up and over those waves and go to go!

It's called a montage. I'm sure no one would have wanted hourse spent on Moana's sailing lessons. But we did have two more scenes showing us she wasn't good at that.

[Ben]

Okay, just for fun:

Snowy, Cinders, Aurora and Rapunzel communicate with animals in the way I communicate with my dog. They are living things, and able to respond. Unlike the ocean, which is, y'know, water.

Belle is perhaps too perfect, but then she had self taught herself as a way to stand in a world of silly men. Her arc is that even though she may be perfect she still learns more, to see the beauty of the man within the beast, reflective of the whole "book and its cover" moral of the entire story. Pocahontas couldn’t control or communicate with the wind, it chose to swirl around her, and her interactions with Grandmother Willow are either deeply spiritually or perhaps maybe even drug induced (though off camera, of course) hallucinations.

I’d say if the ocean raised, moved about and slapped me about, first I’d be pretty freaked out, and then I’d think it was trying to communicate with me, especially when it returns me safely to the beach and gives me a precious stone from the depths. I wouldn’t say that was just a freak of nature!

Aladdin's rug is a magic carpet. And, y’know, he has a Genie.

So, not like Newlan, who is a super-chi Jedi from before we even meet her, so has nowhere to go and nothing to learn. Aladdin learns loads, is a better person by the end, and gets a happy ending reward as a consequence. Newlan ends up right back where she started.

Moana's sailing...even in montage, she managed to achieve this herself. She still didn’t need Maui.

[EricJ]

Are Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora and Ariel the same because they can communicate with animals? Aren't Belle and Pocahontas too perfect as well? What exactly is their arc? What about Rapunzel who's basically talented in every activity in the world? How come none of them is compared to "Newlan"?

They can't "communicate" with animals like the Beastmaster--or Mer-people--Snow, Cindy and Aurora simply get listened to because they're nice enough to stop and talk to them once in a while.
And Rapunzel is talented because her curiosity/ambition wants to be, not because she "deserves" to be.

As for Pocahontas, "perfect" maybe (Mike did want to smooch up for that Virginia park), Belle, DEFINITELY. Linda made sure we got that "She's the only book-reader in town!" literacy message hammered in, early on, in case we might not pick it up.

Belle is perhaps too perfect, but then she had self taught herself as a way to stand in a world of silly men. Her arc is that even though she may be perfect she still learns more, to see the beauty of the man within the beast, reflective of the whole "book and its cover" moral of the entire story.

But, of course, she won't be able to see it (and thus learn the entire moral lesson of the original fairytale, suggesting she didn't actually know everything already going in) until he learns to conquer his Toxic Male Ego and SHOW it first.
So in WoolvertonWorld, it's still all the Beast's "fault" after all, requiring Fixing by smart perfect literate heroines who can read.

And they do say that Love is a Fixer-Upper...Or was that somebody else?

[Farerb]

Good from anti-Moana we go to anti-Beauty and the Beast.

This is fun.

[Daniel]

Not to mention Linda Woolverton. There is such a thing as overstating ones influence on a film. Especially animated films that tend to be a collaborative process. Watching the special features gives a pretty good insight.

[Farerb]

Concept Art:

[Ben]

Now those second story sketches really does look like Mulan!

[Daniel]

Pretty incredible visual development art.

[EricJ]

Not to mention Linda Woolverton. There is such a thing as overstating ones influence on a film.

Let's just say, when you start realizing that Beauty & Beast, Maleficent AND the Alice movies were obnoxious for the exact same reason (and start newly looking askance at Lion King)...It's in the nature of the human reasoning process to find patterns in things.
After "Pirate Queen Alice" from Looking Glass, we can now spot a Woolverton script from five miles away, downwind, on a foggy day.

It's a bad sign when the audience begins to know a screenwriter by name, just from his or her goofier licks:
Remember when we were ready to blame all of "Batman & Robin" on Joel Schumacher, and then after the Lost in Space movie came out, we suddenly became aware of the name of Akiva Goldsman?
Had anyone heard of Alex Kurtzman before Tom Cruise's "Mummy"? Would Joe Eszterhas have become a legend on "Showgirls" alone, if "Jade" hadn't opened the same month?

Now those second story sketches really does look like Mulan!

In the good way.