Disney Pixar's Elemental

[Ben]

Yeah, I was surprised to see that too, and still the reticence at releasing a wide 4K…grrr!

[gaastra]

Now the highest movie or show on all of streaming! Little movie that could!

https://www.thewrap.com/top-streaming-t ... sney-plus/

[EricJ]

Finally got around to starting it--

Here, we get the "Ethnic daily life in fantasy environment" with the second-generation-immigrant metaphor laid on from the first scene, and clearly Indian, from the Bollywood music that erupts on the soundtrack every time Ember goes into action.
But...it's a STEP. And at least they're fixing Toy Story 4.

[Ben]

Okay…what was "wrong" with TS4, apart from the obvious…?

[gaastra]

My take on toy story 4 is it undoes the great end of part 3 and throws bonnie under the bus to do it--makes woody a huge hypercrit after 3 films, two specials and multiple shorts of "stay with your human--blah blah blah" and a bad guy posed as a good guy AGAIN for the third blasted time. Something new please!

[EricJ]

Well, not so much throwing Bonnie under the bus as Bonnie throwing Woody under the bus.

(Leaving aside current management that wanted to toss Woody completely offscreen and make the entire movie about Liberated Superheroine-Caped Bo Peep traveling the world to do whatever she wants without personal ties or obligations--
When Woody sees Bonnie wants to have more fun playing with "Sheriff Jessie", that ain't exactly Bonnie we're seeing...)

and a bad guy posed as a good guy AGAIN for the third blasted time.

No, no, this is the new Disney/Pixar: The "bad guy" turned out to be not so bad after all, she just felt insecure and wanted bad things too much, when what she really needed was a supportive hug.

TS5 goes back to the territory of grown-up Andy with kids, and while they'll probably explain how he got the toys back from Bonnie, she didn't deserve them anyway, the ungrateful lil' brat.
Although it's probably just the obvious "Let's just say TS4 never existed, 'kay?"

[Ben]

I didn’t think we knew what TS5 is about yet? And the gang is pretty much broken up at this point…

TS4 *looked* amazing, but it really was a combination of things we’d seen before. For me, the Toy Story run starts with the first and ends with the second. Together they’re a perfect two-part story that stars and ends where they should do, in terms of what the original Toy Story was.

The third film — as impactful as some moments were in comedy and emotion — was just too much of what we’d already seen: the opening of the first was the Wild West opening. Part two was the Zurg videogame. So three was a mix of both. Kinda clever? Or kinda obvious, with nowhere else to go? The rest of the film largely played out that way, too, from the kindly old timer with a ulterior motive, to the conveyor belt closing…as good as the third film was, it was already showing signs of story fatigue.

Which is why I think I actually liked number four more, ironically, since it messed with our expectations and, even if ultimately it wasn’t needed (as slightly lacking as the third was, for me, it did have a perfect way to stop the series) and again repeated some similar ideas, I think they were maybe better realised in the fourth one.

With the team fragmented and no really sensible way of them coming together again other than ridiculous coinkidinks, I fear we’ll again be asking why we need another Toy Story. But then, as I say, it really starts and ends with one and two for me anyway.

[Farerb]

I kind of want both Toy Story 5 and Toy Story 6 and then we can label 1-3 as "Original Trilogy" and 4-6 as "Sequel Trilogy" and everyone will hate the ST.

[Dacey]

…where to begin here?

No, nothing is known about TS5 yet. With the strike, it’s doubtful it has even been written!

No, TS5 is not going to “pretend that TS4 didn’t happen.” TS4 won an Oscar and made a billion dollars, it’s not a “hated” sequel by any stretch.

No, “current management” didn’t want to do away with Woody and make a Bo Peep movie (no one did). The leadership position at Pixar didn’t even happen until six months before it came out anyway.

I could go on, but really, what would be the point?

[Farerb]

Klaus should have won that year.

[Ben]

Agreed! Where’s our Criterion disc, Netflix!?

And I’ll bet there’s an outline, even a treatment or two (or more) for TS5 already.

[EricJ]

No, TS5 is not going to “pretend that TS4 didn’t happen.” TS4 won an Oscar and made a billion dollars, it’s not a “hated” sequel by any stretch.

Dacey says "No, fans did NOT hate it, it made a million shmillion dollars on its opening weekend, so there, that proves it!"....DRINK!!

Which is why I think I actually liked number four more, ironically, since it messed with our expectations

So, for what, six years now, that's been our official code for "The new director self-indulgently screwed it up, but diehards refuse to admit it for fear of breaking up the canon"?
Oh, no, sorry, that's "Subverted fans' expectations". Different franchise.

Basically, Toy Story 4 started out as--well, it started out as Bob Iger wanting something to announce along with the theme park and anniversary, but in terms of story, it started out as "What happened to Bo Peep in TS3, now that they could finally use Barbie?", and the romantic angle that the big cowpoke still cared for her.
The same way that Incredibles 2 started out as "Mr. Incredible's babysitting problems", but somehow, along the way, became the All Elasti-Girl Show, as she fights the mean villainess who wanted liberation too much.

With the team fragmented and no really sensible way of them coming together again other than ridiculous coinkidinks, I fear we’ll again be asking why we need another Toy Story.

Again, Bob Iger wanted something to announce.
In this case, he wanted to announce that they were "fixing" the studio back, and that Lightyear wasn't going to happen again.
("But it was a big hit on Disney+, and a million shmillion people streamed it!")

But since this is an Elemental thread, let's just focus on Pete Sohn as one of the few remaining un-ousted people at Pixar who still Gets It.

[Ben]

"The new director self-indulgently screwed it up, but diehards refuse to admit it for fear of breaking up the canon"? Oh, no, sorry, that's "Subverted fans' expectations". Different franchise.

No. I already "broke up the canon" by suggesting Toy Story starts and ends with the first two only.

Bob Iger wanted something to announce. In this case, he wanted to announce that they were "fixing" the studio back…

Yes. We all know the reason. But we will all still keep asking ourselves why.

[Farerb]

I'm not the biggest Toy Story fan and admittedly I like other Pixar films better like WALL-E, Ratatouille and The Incredibles, but I like how Toy Story 3 is a thematic continuation of the previous ones. Toy Story 2 presents the idea that one day Andy will grow up and won't need his toys anymore, but Woody's conclusion is that Andy can still enjoy and play with him until that time comes. That time comes in Toy Story 3 and the resolution for that conflict is moving on to a new kid, that's sort of the toys' "circle of life". Toy Story 4 doesn't add anything to that theme, and I think that's the reason why many, knowingly or unknowingly, find it unnecessary. I personally also got really bored with the nonsense at the antique shop and Forky was annoying. Toy Story 3 at least had more tension with that prison break storyline.

[gaastra]

People are upset by bo? Why? Bo, forky and even the bad guy posing again are to me not the big problem. It's they made woody a HUGE hypocrite, destroyed the ending to 3 and Andy's happy ending and changed bonnie and her family who acted nothing like that in 3 or the specials are shorts just to set up woody becoming a hypocrite at the end.

And now andy is coming back again in the next film. Sigh.