Batman: The Animated Series

Small Screen Specials, Series and Direct-To-Video
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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by ShyViolet » January 20th, 2021, 9:22 pm

Oh Lord. There’s always a chance it might have some merit, (but if Bruce Timm and Paul Dini don’t return, a much smaller one) but is there ANYTHING out there that’s NOT being revived?? :? :roll:

I realize there have always been remakes, but were there really this many 20, 30 years ago? The 1980s had lots of 50s remakes, but many of these updated films were actually GOOD! Case in point: Little Shop of Horrors and The Fly (both released in 1986) were actually remakes of 50s films! Yet the 80s updates are ICONIC, and even though both were studio cash-ins of course, they were also incredibly amazing films that many define as a part of their own coming-of-age.


Can we really say that about any of the remakes/reboots that are constantly getting churned out nowadays? Hollywood is still the sequel factory, but now also the remake factory. :roll:

“If it’s a remake of a classic, rent the classic! After Roman numeral two, give it a rest! Tell them you want stories about people...not a hundred million dollars of stunts and explosions but people, it’s up to you, if the movie stinks, JUST DON’T GO!”

—The Critic

:P
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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by droosan » January 20th, 2021, 10:36 pm

:|

I mean .. by that logic .. Bruce Timm & co shouldn't have even bothered with Batman: The Animated Series in the 1990s. After all, theirs was hardly the first 'take' on Batman attempted on television .. heck; it wasn't even close to being the first *animated* version! :wink:

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by ShyViolet » January 20th, 2021, 11:43 pm

I see what you’re saying Droo, and you’re right, in a way there are no “new” stories, superhero or not. I didn’t exactly mean Batman per se, but so much of current pop culture.

At least Little Shop and The Fly radically differed from their source material (which has its own merits). Both Warner Bros and Paramount took risks in changing so much. A grisly and very intense sci-fi/drama was NOT a common genre by any means (especially directed by an independent filmmaker known for his uniquely visceral style). Neither was a musical comedy “horror” film not starring any particularly big names. (EDIT: Oops forgot Steve Martin and Bill Murray, duh. :oops:)


I guess all I want to know is: Why can’t Hollywood take risks like this again? (Actually to bring this all home, the very dark “cartoon” that was B: TAS was a gigantic risk in itself during the early 90s.)
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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Randall » January 21st, 2021, 12:56 am

I just find it hard to believe that there can be any more Batman stories worth telling, especially in the same style. Try another character, already!

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Ben » January 21st, 2021, 6:45 am

As a Little Shop "acolyte", I must point out that...

The original was made and released in 1960, so not really a 50s creature feature, though it shares some of the tropes.

But the 86 film isn’t a remake: it’s a film version of the 1982 off-Broadway stage musical, which is where all the "changes" came from (and, in fact, the original stage version doesn’t change the 60 film's story much at all). When dumb test audiences didn’t like the un-happy ending (from both the 60 film and 82 musical) they shot the new "happy ending" where Audrey and Seymour both survive (yes, even Seymour was eaten in 1960 and 82), which is what audiences have seen until the original 86 ending was restored for a "director's cut" just a few years back.

The original 1960 film — with an added The on the front of the title — is, to be honest, sometimes a slog. As a half-hour Hitchcock Presents it would have been kooky and weird, but to make it a "feature" (and barely that), Roger Corman puts in a lot of filler and "beatnik" scenes that really don’t fit: famously the film was made up and shot in two and a half days on sets left over from something else!

Little Shop, the musical (without the The!) was destined to be another Ashman/Menken half-failure, until audiences who had enjoyed Rocky Horror picked up on the title and made its off-Broadway debut something of a sleeper hit. Geffen had been an investor, so nabbed the film rights, and he had a deal with Warners at the time, so it got produced there. Because Audrey II was designed as a massive puppet on stage, they went to Jim Henson to make what had to be a more believable movie version, and Frank Oz ended up getting the directing gig (after The Muppets Take Manhattan, and a lot of Muppeteers worked on this too).

Contrary to popular belief, it wasn’t a flop, though it wasn’t a massive hit either. The folks that loved the stage play hated the altered ending, but over time it built up an audience, as with so many 80s films, on home video, to the point where Warners thought it was viable to restore the original ending.

And it's *full* of names of the time: Rick Moranis was coming off Ghostbusters, Spaceballs was around the same time, and Shrunk The Kids was around the corner, Steve Martin was the most prolific solo comic actor who also had ¡Three Amigos! the same year, and Ellen Greene reprised her role from the stage after a long search found no-one better suited than the one who had originated the role. Plus you have a whole bunch of cameos in there: Murray is the obvious one, who shot his scene as a favour in a day while on sabbatical in Paris (it was shot at Pinewood, just outside London), as well as John Candy, Christopher Guest...almost everyone is a name, however minor (even the dentist's nurse is Miriam Margolies). The only one I’m not a *terrific* fan of is Vincent Gardenia: he looks the part but the fact he couldn’t sing meant that his song, Mushnik & Son, got cut, along with another whole subplot that's really the movie's only other major difference.

It was so cool to visit Skid Row back in the day, when my Dad was on this: it was a *massive* set, built on the same Bond stage as the Fortress of Solitude for the first two Superman movies, and the way they shot Audrey II was phenomenally complex and yet so simple, resulting in a totally believable man eating plant from outer space.

In keeping with the theme of this reply, they do keep mooting a new version of the musical, which could be considered a remake, although it will likely stick closer to the stage show's original story and not lose the Mushnik plot or change the ending. As much as I would anticipate that — albeit with however much trepidation! — I can’t help but think that they captured it so well in 86 in terms of casting, tone and feel, that it really can’t be bettered!

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Randall » May 19th, 2021, 10:03 am

And now it's been revealed. Not a Batman TAS continuation, but a new series produced by Bruce Timm, Matt Reeves, and JJ Abrams, called Batman: Caped Crusader. They suggest it'll be noir and psychological.

Not that I needed yet another Batman cartoon, but this does sound promising.

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Daniel » May 19th, 2021, 1:14 pm

Yep, here's the info. Has my interest. Loved his noir take for the 75th anniversary:



I hope they get Kevin Conroy back!

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Ben » May 19th, 2021, 6:51 pm

I’m split on Conroy. Yes, he owns the character in animation, but he’s no spring chicken thesedays, and I feel it’s time to bring in someone new who can carry this forward over the next decade or more. Depends what their take is, I suppose, but despite legacy holdover Timm, the alternative take on the mythos has me thinking they should start fresh on all fronts.

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Randall » May 19th, 2021, 8:20 pm

I love Strange Days.

I agree that Conroy's had his day. It was a great run, but it's time to move on.

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Daniel » May 20th, 2021, 3:26 pm

Killjoys! ;) Well, I won't be crushed if he doesn't come back but if he does I'll be elated. There's been a couple of decent replacements so will be interesting to see if any of them are chosen or someone completely new.

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by James » June 18th, 2021, 10:55 am

We have an all-thing-DC movie thread. Do we need one for tv maybe? Anyway, sticking this here for now.

10 seasons of Super Friends just dropped on HBO Max... two days after I just bought one of the season sets!

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by Ben » June 18th, 2021, 11:45 am

And that’s why it dropped! Always the way! Thanks for making it possible! ;)

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Re: Batman: The Animated Series

Post by ShyViolet » June 18th, 2021, 9:50 pm

Like most B:TAS fans, I absolutely loved Conroy’s deliveries/acting, (basically grew up with him and Keaton as “my” Batmans), but boy, was he awful in The Killing Joke! I don’t think it was all his fault though…maybe the voice direction just wasn’t very good. But yeah, maybe it is time to retire him.

Bats’ speech to the Joker: (ending)

https://youtu.be/l3DWn2OPwvM
You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!

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