THIS is why I hate American Idol

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Post by Ben » April 17th, 2007, 11:35 am

Sorry, was really replying to eddie's asking why no Shadowlands or anything else. ;)

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Post by Daniel » April 17th, 2007, 4:48 pm

ShyViolet wrote:I hated it with a passion....one of the few things that DW has done that totally made me cringe inside.
Okay... Funny this makes you cringe, though.
ShyViolet wrote:It wasn't even a "parody"--just pretty much a straight plug!!
Parody: In contemporary usage, a parody is a work that imitates another work in order to ridicule, ironically comment on, or poke some affectionate fun at the work itself, the subject of the work, the author or fictional voice of the parody, or another subject.

Wouldn't you say making Simon sing, is poking fun at the fact that he never does that? ;)
ShyViolet wrote:I know DW has done a lot of plugging/marketing tie ins (most of which were outside of the films) but I found most of them tasteful/innovative/creative and not cheap, tacky and reeking of desperation....like this was. :(
I don't dislike or overly love any DW tie ins, but this was just a little bonus to make consumers want to get the movie. I know that was the reason for my speedy purchase.
ShyViolet wrote:and I think even then, when it was at the height of popularity, most people knew American Idol wasn't going to last all that much longer.
True. But don't you think the amount of years that AI has been around, that it has established itself as memorable? You know, just like that OJ spoof? Or Joan Rivers?
ShyViolet wrote:This isn't like referencing a classic film like From Here to Eternity in Shrek 2 (Shrek and Fiona on the beach) but like having Shrek telling kids to watch Nickelodeon at the end of the film (And I pray to G-d that never happens...:? :roll:)
Got me there! :)
ShyViolet wrote:If I'm not mistaken didn't Clay Aiken (He sang "Proud of your boy" on the Aladdin DVD release) get his start in AI?
If this is a sincere question, yes.
ShyViolet wrote:It was the same thing with the Disney Lion King VHS re-issue and ditto Beauty and the Beast (which I had as well). "Human Again" was there whether you wanted it or not!! Unlike the DVD, you didn't have a choice! :(
I'm with you on Lion, but the Beauty and the Beast addition was genious! It added something that was always intended to be in the film, but couldn't be. And dare I say, it made the movie much better, because it was such a great song. Not only that, but it gave you a little more insight on why they want to be human again.

The song is a masterpiece, plain and simple.

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Post by Jeroen » April 17th, 2007, 5:18 pm

The song is a masterpiece, plain and simple.
YES!! :D

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Post by Meg » April 17th, 2007, 5:20 pm

I hated the American Idol thing in Shrek as well.

Honestly, in a few years, the show will be off-air and no one will remember it. I agree with everything ShiVi said about it.

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Post by ShyViolet » April 17th, 2007, 6:56 pm


I'm with you on Lion, but the Beauty and the Beast addition was genious! It added something that was always intended to be in the film, but couldn't be.

It was for a while, but then JK wanted it cut, because he thought the focus should be on Belle and Beast, not the household servants. :wink:
(It all depends on your perspective but personally I do agree with that. Not that it's a bad song--I like listening to it on CD. But seeing it as an animation sequence, IMO, takes away from the film's power. I liked the servants when I first saw the film as a kid, I thought they were "funny", but I never cared all that much about them, to be perfectly honest. Even more bluntly....I never really completely got that they WERE human beforehand....which made the whole "transformation" scene in the end THAT MUCH MORE POWERFUL. To me, anyway. :))


He agreed to put it back into the Broadway version as a tribute to Ashman, which came out three years later. (April 1994) He knew Ashman would have been overjoyed about it, as Ashman's partner Bill Luach said at the time.

It was a nice piece of animation as well, and a nice song, but IMHO I think the only reason Disney animated it years later (and I'm pretty sure it was only storyboarded originally, not actually animated right?) was because they needed a reason for people to buy the DVD/VHS....not 'cause they really cared about Howard Ashaman. Just my opinion though.

Parody: In contemporary usage, a parody is a work that imitates another work in order to ridicule, ironically comment on, or poke some affectionate fun at the work itself, the subject of the work, the author or fictional voice of the parody, or another subject.

Wouldn't you say making Simon sing, is poking fun at the fact that he never does that? Wink

I forgot all about that....yeah, that's kinda funny I guess. But the whole transporting AI to Shrek times (which are ostensibly in a fairy-tale/middle ages era) just left a very bad taste in my mouth. :(

Maybe if it was a separate thing with a (much sharper) AI parody where it actually had to do with plot :roll: and the whole thing was set in the modern-day to begin with, well....

But I do get your point about AI being more resilient culturally than other shows/films.....I think people will "remember" it, but like you said, but not as anything noteworthy. It'll be like one of those "signs of the times" things that people will look back on and say: "I can't people actually liked this show!" or "I can't believe this show got made!" aka the sitcom "Bosom Buddies", which would have completely faded into obscurity were it not for the fact that it starred a (then relatively unknown) Tom Hanks masquerading as a woman in every episode....:roll: :roll:

Case in Point: In the late 70's, early 80's there was actually a show called "The Gong Show" (nope, nothing to do with Disney Animation! :wink:) where often inexperienced or just plain bad acts of singing, dancing, etc...would get on stage and try to last for as long as they could without getting "gonged" on this giant golden, well, gong.....something like that anyway.....I actually think this is where Eisner/Katzenberg got the idea for animation "Gong Shows"....:wink:

Anyways, my point being....some people do remember this show, but in a "wow was that show BAD" kind of way.

(You might say that the show "humiliated" people like AI does now but the whole thing was that PEOPLE KNEW IT WAS ALL A JOKE FROM THE START. No one ever came on expecting to make it big as a would-be celebrity...just the opposite. It was all for fun, at least I think it was--it was re-made in the late 80's, which is the version I vaguely remember. There was no audience voting or people being told how bad they were....:()



If AI or say, Survivor are ever parodied in the future, I think it will be mostly as a testament to the weird things people actually watched in the early 21st century....:roll:
Last edited by ShyViolet on April 17th, 2007, 8:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by ShyViolet » April 17th, 2007, 7:01 pm

If I'm not mistaken didn't Clay Aiken (He sang "Proud of your boy" on the Aladdin DVD release) get his start in AI?
If this is a sincere question, yes.
Yeah, it was. :)

Honestly, in a few years, the show will be off-air and no one will remember it. I agree with everything ShiVi said about it.
Thanks Meg! :) Yes, hopefully sooner than that!! :D

If they wanted to add a song from the broadway show, they should have added "Shadowlands" or "Endless Night" or one of the other dramatic songs that would have actually enhanced the story. "Morning Report" was just a waste of time and a waste of effort.
Ah, that reminds me! I have a question that desperately needs answering! Ben, maybe you can help: :wink:

Morning Report was originally intended for the film at some point....but was cut during production, then added into the Broadway Show, and then later on the film's re-issue.

Was this also true for "Shadowlands", "He Lives in You" and "Endless Night"? Were they all intended for the original 1994 film as well?? :?:
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Post by Ben » April 18th, 2007, 1:49 pm

That's the first time I've ever heard "Morning Report" was written for the film. I just don't think it was.

Most of the other songs were written for the "Shadows Of The Pride Lands" sequel album, and none of them by Rice/John, so none of them were ever intended for the film.

"He Lives In You" was later used for the opening of "Simba's Pride".


The only songs I knew of that were cut from the original film were extra verses of "Hakuna Matata" and "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" and the "Warthog Rhapsody" song, which was fully recorded by Nathan Lane but replaced with "Hakuna Matata".

"Morning Report" was added to the show by Rice/John when they wrote two other new songs for it. Where did you hear it was intended for the film? I don't think that's right...

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Post by ShyViolet » April 18th, 2007, 4:43 pm

"Morning Report" was added to the show by Rice/John when they wrote two other new songs for it. Where did you hear it was intended for the film? I don't think that's right..

I could be totally off on this, but I could have sworn that in the Lion King 2003 DVD re-issue, Elton or Rice were both musing about how they were working with different lyrics for MP but that they were "too silly" or "just never worked" and ended up getting dumped pretty early....just my hazy memory however. :wink:
Or maybe I just misunderstood what they meant...but I thought that's what they were saying.
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Post by Ben » April 18th, 2007, 4:54 pm

That might be some sales talk justifcation for the extra new bit, but it was NEVER intended for the film or written, like Human Again was.

Morning Report was written as one of the three new songs they wrote for the show. There might be some justifcation in that they might have said, "hey, how about a song here" at one point, but that song was not written for that point until it was decided to mount a stage production.

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Post by Daniel » April 18th, 2007, 8:42 pm

ShyViolet wrote:But seeing it as an animation sequence, IMO, takes away from the film's power.
I don't, but I can see why you would think that. Agree to disagree. :)
ShyViolet wrote:It was a nice piece of animation as well, and a nice song, but IMHO I think the only reason Disney animated it years later (and I'm pretty sure it was only storyboarded originally, not actually animated right?) was because they needed a reason for people to buy the DVD/VHS....
Being a Platinum Edition isn't enough?

Yeah, I think the 'early' version of it was storyboarded, because of a feature they gave on the DVD, which showed a black & white animatic with a backround song playing, "Tick tock the time goes, the days past the months go."

A little slow, but very cute! :)
ShyViolet wrote:I forgot all about that....yeah, that's kinda funny I guess. But the whole transporting AI to Shrek times (which are ostensibly in a fairy-tale/middle ages era) just left a very bad taste in my mouth. :(
But what about showing Starbucks and the Hollywood Bowl? ;)

I get what what you mean, though.
ShyViolet wrote:Maybe if it was a separate thing with a (much sharper) AI parody where it actually had to do with plot :roll: and the whole thing was set in the modern-day to begin with, well....
Yeah, probably.

And everything else you posted, I agree.
ShyViolet wrote:Yeah, it was. :)
Oh ok. Sorry, at first glance it looked retorical.

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Post by James » April 18th, 2007, 9:52 pm

Has ShyVi not posted about what just happened on AI yet!?

;)

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Post by Josh » April 18th, 2007, 10:01 pm

She's starting a new thread, titled "THIS is why I love American Idol". :)

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Post by ShyViolet » April 18th, 2007, 10:15 pm

Ha ha....:P :wink:

LOL.....I know AI has been the focus of some talk lately but I didn't know why or care to find out....then I saw your posts and googled AI.....I got a few articles, wasn't sure if it's

A.) protests that the show is racist and also discriminates against heavier people or B.) The thing about that singer who's just not any good still staying on the show?


Either way, it has only bolstered my feelings on the show....



Still hate it and I think SC is SUCH a jerk, and that's the absolute nicest word I can come up with to describe him....it so makes me want to hurl that he technically "appeared" in a DW animated film!!! :? :roll: :roll:


EDIT: Oh wait that guy was voted off? Big surprise--I"m sure they planned all this WAY ahead of time, NOTHING to do with his talent but it's all about ratings, ratings, ratings....they were probably like: "Let's let a guy who's truly awful stay on the show just to get more viewers to tune in and watch him crash and burn!"

Prove to me that they didn't do that....you can't.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_ ... can_idol_1

click to reveal content
It kind of reminds me of this episode of Dr. Who from the 80's called Vengeance on Varos, where people are purposely put through horrible Saw-like traps on "television" for everyone on this weird planet to witness....but EVERYONE tunes in 'cause hey, it's entertaining and they all want to see if those people survive!! :?

I guess it was a reference (in part) to the Gladiator days of Rome where people would be "entertained" by seeing if those guys survived or not...not to mention modern-day society as well.....there's also a VERY clever thing where, well...

The planet's governor make an address on television and everyone at home watches it...then they all "vote" by pressing either a button for "agree" or "disagree" with the guy....who, in turn, is strapped to an electric chair and receives shocks based on how many "disagree" with him--if not enough do, he gets to survive, but only until the next time.....



Sick, I know. It reminds me a lot of AI now that I think about it. :?

Double Edit! :oops: :oops: :oops:


Oh wait SC "rolling his eyes" and "looking bored" during the talk about the Virginia Tech shootings?

So not surprised, and glad it's more evident about what kind of person he is now...at least IMHO. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/ap_ ... LEYru2GL8C
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Post by Josh » April 18th, 2007, 10:34 pm

Here's what James and I were referencing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319931/boa ... d/72222510

With that said, there was a certain someone you love sitting in the audience tonight (hint: it was Jeffrey Katzenberg). :)

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Post by ShyViolet » April 18th, 2007, 10:40 pm

Triple Edit: Ohhhhh, now I finally get it! :) ROFL!!! :lol:




Yeah, I'm not surprised....after all the whole AI vibe is still a presence on the Shrek site, what with Far Far Away idol and all that....:roll:


Ugh....:?


With that said, there was a certain someone you love sitting in the audience tonight (hint: it was Jeffrey Katzenberg). Smile
Aw, thanks! That's so cool. Wish I'd seen it. :)

Nice of you to think of me. :P :wink:
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