Avengers and the MCU

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Dacey » September 27th, 2019, 5:06 pm

Except that Captain Marvel 2 HAS been confirmed by Disney, so...

Bottom line is: your movie doesn't make that kind of money if everyone hates it. Period. Especially with a film that was facing the so-called "negative hype" that Marvel was. Of course not "everyone" is going to love a movie, but word-of-mouth would've killed it quickly if opinions had been overwhelming negative. And Marvel (the studio, not the character) is showing no signs of being in any form of financial danger, and I'm very curious as to why you're so certain that their future movies will bomb now because...reasons?
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift--that is why it's called the present."

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by EricJ » September 27th, 2019, 5:23 pm

Dacey wrote:
September 27th, 2019, 5:06 pm
B-but...MONEY!!

And Marvel (the studio, not the character) is showing no signs of being in any form of financial danger, and I'm very curious as to why you're so certain that their future movies will bomb now because...reasons?
Because...they don't really seem to have any game plan at the moment, and just seem to be winging it like Warner/DC was after Justice League blew up?
And because every Phase IV plan they did have, from Spiderman to the Inhumans to Evil Skrull Impostors, seem to have blown up in their face before they could exploit it, they kept having to come up with "No, THIS is our new '21-'23 plan, you'll love it!" four or five times, until their "Phase IV" was now unveiled as the Disney+ collection of streaming series?

Y'know, I'd actually like it if they got a break and could figure out what they were doing three movies ahead, after the whole ten year Avengers thing. Just that I'm not as blindly, stubbornly hopeful as Kevin Feige is.
(And don't even get me STARTED on how the print comics are getting the waters ready for MCU's X-Men. You won't like it. :shock: )

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Randall » September 28th, 2019, 12:34 pm

I think that Marvel has not told us every detail of their next 10 year plan, so that we can, you know, be surprised. Which is good. The Infinity storyline, case in point, was allowed to sneak up on us. I think they have earned our trust at this point. And I sure don't see them floundering. One's personal feelings cannot change the fact that EACH film has been hugely successful at the box office, and the last one is the all-time champ. Personally, I greatly look forward to each of the upcoming films. 2021 especially looks amazing.

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by EricJ » September 28th, 2019, 1:22 pm

Randall wrote:
September 28th, 2019, 12:34 pm
I think that Marvel has not told us every detail of their next 10 year plan, so that we can, you know, be surprised. Which is good. The Infinity storyline, case in point, was allowed to sneak up on us. I think they have earned our trust at this point. And I sure don't see them floundering. One's personal feelings cannot change the fact that EACH film has been hugely successful at the box office, and the last one is the all-time champ. Personally, I greatly look forward to each of the upcoming films. 2021 especially looks amazing.
The Infinity storyline WAS allowed to develop--at least once they had some space characters to tell us who that purple guy was at the end of the first Avengers--but given that Thanos was pulling Loki's strings in NY, the Gauntlet was a sacred bit of Marvel's Avengers lore right in the pot from the beginning.

Here, the problem is not that they're not telling us what their new plan is...It's that they DON'T HAVE ONE.
Remember this is 10's filmmaking--Every studio is trying to copy Disney/Marvel's habit of announcing the release date of every film they're planning to make over the next five years, at SDCC. If they knew, they'd be telling us what they were making, besides Disney+ series and sequels to the breakout solo hits.

And while I'm not expecting SW: Rise of Skywalker to crash-and-burn at the box-office after Solo/Last Jedi any more than I expected Endgame to crash after the Captain Marvel fan backlash, they've both become the proverbial "Things You Can't Un-See" with fans, and it would take another super-duper Civil War--without Brie--to make the taint 100% go away. (Which, as the discussion first started, may have been what they were rumored to be trying to do. Or not.) And that's assuming Kevin is going to go back and make sentimental non-Woke archival fan-favorite stories again, which, as we know from the upcoming Lady Thor movie....he is not.
Kevin may very well have Captain Marvel's demographically-boosted box office on the brain for Disney (another parallel to Kathleen Kennedy's Star Wars), and may find out what the audience means when they say "Go Woke, Go Broke".

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Dan » September 28th, 2019, 2:14 pm

...

So the updated film schedule goes like this:

- Black Widow - May 1, 2020
- The Eternals - November 6, 2020
- Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - February 12, 2021
- Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness - May 7, 2021
- Next Spider-Man Feature - July 16, 2021
- Thor: Love and Thunder - November 5, 2021
- Black Panther II - May 6, 2022

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 is tentatively after James Gunn finishes The Suicide Squad, which comes out August 6, 2021. In the works are Blade, Captain Marvel sequel, and the MCU introductions for Fantastic Four and X-Men.

And then, of course, there's Disney+:

- The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Late 2020
- WandaVision - Early 2021
- Loki - Early 2021
- Hawkeye - Late 2021

In development are Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, and She-Hulk. Plus the animated anthology What If...? in Mid-2021.

It certainly does feel like the next phase or two will be cosmic in scope. The popular theory is that this would be building up to Galactus. I'm curious to see if they'll expand upon the Skrull-Kree war and how that might play out with the involvement of the Earth-based heroes (that very end credits scene from Far From Home definitely puts that in mind for me).

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Daniel » September 29th, 2019, 1:21 pm

Mighty impressive roster. Sure feels like Marvel has a plan.

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by EricJ » September 29th, 2019, 4:48 pm

Daniel wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 1:21 pm
Mighty impressive roster. Sure feels like Marvel has a plan.
And...what "plan" would that be, precisely?

(When Thanos' minion in the first Avengers says "To attack the earth would be to court Death", and Thanos replies " :mrgreen: ", every old-school print-Marvel fan KNEW what was coming, six films in advance.
What exactly are we getting out of Shang-Chi and The Eternals, apart from a few discarded memos about "The New Avengers, with Spiderman, Wolverine and War Machine!", or teaming Spidey with Captain Marvel, which now probably IS going to happen?
Even the two new "big" projects they are pushing came out of previously discarded side memos for "Fix the Mandarin from Iron Man 3", and "Come up with a new team if Fox is going to keep the X-Men".)

Again, right now, they're winging it hand-to-mouth like Warner/DC is, when they see "Hey, wait--Shazam became a hit!...They liked the funny guy! New plan!"

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Randall » September 29th, 2019, 5:09 pm

Just because you don't know what the plan is does not mean there is no plan. :? In fact, there is probably way more of a plan NOW than there was when the first Iron Man came out. Now, Marvel KNOWS they will have films coming out steadily, and they are prepared for that. I really doubt that Feige and the gang suddenly have no clue.

We could run around in circles on this topic, because there is no proof either way; but we'll see in 10 years if Marvel had a plan or not. I certainly wouldn't expect it to be at all evident before the first film in the next phase even comes out. :roll:

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Ben » September 29th, 2019, 6:46 pm

Marvel have SUCH a plan, Lucasfilm is finally catching up and snagging Feige to help sort them out as well.

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Daniel » September 29th, 2019, 6:59 pm

EricJ wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 4:48 pm
or teaming Spidey with Captain Marvel, which now probably IS going to happen?
What would be the point? Captain Marvel made a billion, they aren't worried about that franchise at all. There's really no need to add Spidey magic...

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by droosan » September 29th, 2019, 7:08 pm

Sorta off-topic, since I realize this wasn't an official MCU release ..

but if there are any fans of the 1986 Howard the Duck movie (or fans of John Barry, or Thomas Dolby) reading this, you may be interested to know that Intrada is releasing a newly-remastered and expanded 3-CD Howard The Duck soundtrack set, featuring all the music recorded for the movie -- including many previously unreleased deleted tracks by Barry, and alternate mixes by Dolby! :D

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by EricJ » September 29th, 2019, 7:22 pm

Daniel wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 6:59 pm
What would be the point? Captain Marvel made a billion, they aren't worried about that franchise at all. There's really no need to add Spidey magic...
Well, yes, there was a "need", a big fat studio-rescuing need that yes, they may have been worried about, and that sort of brings things full circle back to my post on the previous page that Dacey got so upset about--
After they paid all that money, the studio found out audiences DIDN'T LIKE HER. Which put sequels--which were all MCU had on their immediate plate--in jeopardy, even if not dangerously so.
(Hey, we all loved Thor, Avengers and Iron Man, so Thor 2, IM3 and Age of Ultron are done deals! :lol: )

The idea was to "humanize" her with some actual trace of humor and compassion, and let Peter Parker Millennially annoy her as her new Avenger-padawan, rather than making Empire Strikes Back jokes to the late Tony Stark.
Which suggests they didn't really know where to take Captain Marvel either, now that some overly ambitious female director had singlehandedly yanked the rug out from under the company, and just disqualified Evil Skrull Infiltrators as a Phase IV arc.
And why they jammed it out of nowhere back into the Far From Home post-credits anyway, just in case.

And as for Kevin "not having a clue", he's sure got ideas, yes, but no clue:
Would you, for example, still be looking forward to "MCU's finally got the X-Men characters!", if you knew the new "progressive" Feige was currently getting the print comics ready for a quote, "big twist" that would enable us, in the movies, to get
A female Professor? (Since they can't bring over Patrick Stewart or James Macavoy, you see, and have to do something copyrightably original to appease Fox's lawyers...But, since they're writing the comics anyway, just change THOSE!)
droosan wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 7:08 pm
Sorta off-topic, since I realize this wasn't an official MCU release ..
but if there are any fans of the 1986 Howard the Duck movie
But, current Marvel being what it is, Howard's now been downgraded to a streaming series, rather than the MCU "do-over" we'd hoped was on the plans after his Guardians cameo.
Last edited by EricJ on September 29th, 2019, 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Ben » September 29th, 2019, 7:37 pm

Good shout, Droo! I just ordered this new Howard CD set last week. It’s a messed up movie, but has its charms and I loved it as a kid in 1986 who didn’t know the comics, even if the guy in a duck suit was weird even then and at that age! But I can still hum the score's main theme and remember "Howard d-d-do-doin' the duck"!

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Daniel » September 29th, 2019, 8:36 pm

EricJ wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 7:22 pm
After they paid all that money, the studio found out audiences DIDN'T LIKE HER.
Doesn't feel like it. These aren't rumors as much as a small group of people trying to somehow downplay how successful and well liked Captain Marvel actually is for trivial reasons.

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Re: Avengers and the MCU

Post by Ben » September 30th, 2019, 4:25 am

And a group of small people at that! ;)

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